I'm joined today by journalist and author Jon Ward (previous YHP & Depolarize guest) to discuss his book "Testimony: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Failed a Generation." We cover using language as a weapon, epistemic modesty, and falling under the spell of a charismatic leader. Jon did not grow up "amid corrupt charlatans who use the name of God to amass riches. The leaders in [his] world were true believers whose intensity of belief blinded them to their errors."

Jon's Book "Testimony": https://www.amazon.com/Testimony-Inside-Evangelical-Movement-Generation/dp/1587435772

YHP Episode with Jon Ward: https://anchor.fm/s/d8dfa4e8/podcast/rss

Jon's substack: https://jonward.substack.com/

___________________________________________
Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/
Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch
Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/
Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia@gmail.com -- he is accepting more work!)
Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch
Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com
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Between the Church & the World (#185)

So many of us have been given bad answers to good questions -- questions about God, suffering, prayer, fate, science, justice, and more -- often by people with pure intentions. But we needn't stop with those pat answers. You have permission to take both Christianity and the modern world very seriously, and this podcast will introduce you to people from across the Christian spectrum engaging these timeless and difficult questions in various ways.

Religion & Spirituality

Other

Spirituality

Christianity

Buddhism

Hinduism

Judaism

Islam

You know her and love her â€” my friend and recurring guest Kristen Tideman joined me this week for another listener-powered Q&A session!

We recommended voices outside Christianity who provide thoughtful commentary on religion and culture, considered why some Christians seem to have a gentle certainty in their faith while others wrestle with doubt, recommended resources for those interested in psychology but not necessarily at a graduate school level, and wrapped with our Q&A tradition, “podcasts someone else should start.”

I always look forward to bringing Kristen back for these episodes, so please continue to send in your questions and feedback!

**Watch this episode on YouTube**
https://youtu.be/ZWEDLrjwiAA

Kristen & Sarey’s Website:
https://www.tidycocreative.com/

RESOURCES MENTIONED:
“The Spiral Staircase: My Climb Out of Darkness” Book by Karen Armstrong:
https://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Staircase-Climb-Out-Darkness/dp/0385721277

“A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam”:
https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

“Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny” Book by Robert Wright:
https://www.amazon.com/Nonzero-Robert-Wright-audiobook/dp/B003VXOYU0/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W5VbJEd_C7ARelFjPSPdn3yzWFEz_e8NNfRIuUQAVYQiGo7URK4okOWLCcU-5qKRkbZWePmrNEF5UMu2Bsnz0zVH2G-PDpc_rM3QD3GaET1B7YIFlklFaTi9a-8eJlmCGiwutLTJ5mzRIKor8tBFjjIl4mgdq9ixog65RS29IuP6zMeEftqYoSnZP90f73gmgICZuXNiRBhMwUxuvgP76n0gRWYNnZ8v5a3Rb0BlR7I.lzOXxi7UQfAmzXEGnSvr1HwJpM3ZqgRzjKOlcv4A9dI&dib_tag=se&hvadid=695122461575&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9060341&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9167534309706362485&hvtargid=kwd-389232807553&hydadcr=3376_13743879&keywords=nonzero+book&qid=1716136609&sr=8-1

Ezra Klein Show Episode with George Saunders:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-george-saunders.html

“The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds” Book by Michael Lewis:
https://www.amazon.com/The-Undoing-Project-Michael-Lewis-audiobook/dp/B01KBM82M4/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.cvym2lRDIPNob6LgRNDHPOZobL47bYhXCus_FyflE7PaLtByydXWtl_51cpuc2ZxMkfrpUp-o6hKcSIUSzkhknTjMdXCue97elz4LG7AvzJE6OzgVNhyksDwdbqAHnyKUGSJurbTFXxpO5dYRVt9zYkObJ4dX6m3od1-udbHCQKuj0meg8W0G2_KIsoh8nL3_2dKfbIpK9IM6iT-HVNoUcRiH8XiWFaxn3IwyB8MjH0.4vPkZtU2aPl5IqVdSPK_-_EKr3NNIbwGQh97XlkI5NE&dib_tag=se&hvadid=409935120645&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9060341&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8779447192951884940&hvtargid=kwd-409536905666&hydadcr=22597_11320627&keywords=%27the+undoing+project%27+by+michael+lewis&qid=1716136308&sr=8-1

“Thinking Fast and Slow” Book by Daniel Kahneman:
https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-and-Slow-audiobook/dp/B005Z9GAJG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=W7JLD65U1X9F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.J9E3G6r9vjT1ToBWoQvd_jo79NsGeWfMZRwA2IF1bWJJecsgTr9qjHdmX1IlwlqR1EG-cf0ADeQL21OlMnbOLgifLEj4VZDGqBWLpB_c7vGXt0QZa6bMPAg8Za2CbpRwWjTQt0HE4RDRKSgN2snnYa3A8BfMmIludhAdWWNwsnCp6ta6bw8UEcWSv40VpjFqBKBEnqkIouZAVHf-HVvQ6-IooQcNBDgIcj5APXDkih0.xp5f73ny4T0lA9HxrBZfR5AkTsDReliAZ7g4fWtc_YQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=thinking+fast+and+slow&qid=1716136287&sprefix=thinking+fast+%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-1

Freakonomics Show “No Stupid Questions”:
https://freakonomics.com/series/nsq/

Radio Lab’s Podcast “The Queen of Dying”:
https://radiolab.org/podcast/queen-dying
____________________
Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/
Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch
Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/
Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)
Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch
Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com
YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98
Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html
Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/
Artwork by sprungle.
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Why Are Some Christians So Certain? Q&A w/Kristen (#262)

How many times has someone told you that you have to watch The Chosen, the smash hit TV series depicting the life of Jesus?
My buddy Jeff Martin and I break down season 1 episode 1, reacting to all manner of interesting details from my own liberal Christian therapist perspective and Jeff’s more moderate Evangelical lens.
We get into psychology, Biblical studies, theology, history, and even some parenting territory.
I’m very curious how much appetite there is for continuing with episodes like this, so please check it out and let me know what you think!
**Watch this episode on YouTube**
https://youtu.be/6091jNfI8mc
____________________
Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/
Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch
Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/
Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)
Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch
Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com
YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98
Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html
Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/
Artwork by sprungle.co/
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We Watched The Chosen So You Don't Have To: Season 1, Episode 1 (#261)

My guest this week is Lauren Auer, a licensed counselor specializing in religious trauma. She grew up in the evangelical world and initially opened her practice with a faith-based approach (hence the name Steadfast Counseling) but found herself questioning her own beliefs as she witnessed concerning changes in her church community and started receiving a lot of religious trauma cases in her practice, despite not explicitly advertising this specialty.

We discussed the overt and more subtle forms of religious trauma (abuse is the thing that happens to you, while trauma is what happens inside you). many people are "the frog in the pot" from a young age, accustomed to certain behaviors and beliefs within their religious communities. This normalization can make it difficult to recognize when something is amiss or causing harm. Fear of questioning or deviating from the prescribed path often keeps individuals trapped in a state of confusion and self-doubt.

While Lauren is currently only able to see clients in Illinois, there are resources available, such as the Reclamation Collective directory, a geographically organized list of therapists who self-identify as having expertise in working with religious trauma.

My own Spiritual Harm and Abuse Scale -- a free-to-use clinical screener for therapists -- and a condensed research handout on spiritual abuse, are both freely available on dankochwords.com

**Watch this episode on YouTube**
https://youtu.be/rnZnu1VnGvo

Lauren's Website:
https://steadfastcounseling.com/

Follow Lauren on Instagram -- @steadfastcounseling

Find Clinicians Who Deal with Religious Trauma:
reclamationcollective.com

____________________
Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/
Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch
Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/
Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)
Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch
Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com
YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98
Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html
Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/
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What Does Subtle Religious Trauma Look Like? (#260)

After kicking things off with our usual game of "Bar, Bank, Church or Dispensary?” and “Ways we are becoming our dads” segments, we talked about Josh and Tony's work on the recently concluded Emerged podcast, an ambitious 10-episode series examining the Emerging Church movement. 

We debated the semantics and cultural implications of the "California sober" lifestyle and whether it really counts as “sober,” getting into the healthcare differences between so-called “abstinence” and “harm reduction” approaches to substance use.

Tony told us about his speaking engagements at two "post-Christian spiritual communities" in Grand Rapids, Michigan. To close out, we had a spirited dialogue sparked by Josh's experience caring for his four-year-old nephew for a day, which included painting their nails in matching rainbow colors.

Next month, I'll be coming in hot with some reasons I am feeling hopeful about the future of mainline liberal Protestantism, which Tony will do his best to abuse me of! But that’s the fun of these GGCH episode, right?

**Watch this episode on YouTube**
https://youtu.be/DEDU2b-cFZo

Tony's Website:
https://reverendhunter.com/
____________________
Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/
Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch
Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/
Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)
Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch
Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com
YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98
Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html
Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/
Artwork by sprungle.co/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

GGCH: Post-Christian Churches, the New Sober, and Debriefing the Emerged Podcast (#259)

This week, I sat down with Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone, the fantastic hosts of the Saved by the City podcast. I asked them for their take on the "masculinity crisis" some have described in our cultural moment. From their experiences dating in New York City to their observations about the dearth of male role models in many kids' lives, they painted a picture of the loneliness, frustration and loss of purpose afflicting a lot of guys these days. 

Many traditionally male-coded traits and roles have been culturally devalued in recent decades in a way that has left a lot of men feeling adrift. Katelyn made the point that while working for gender parity in leadership is important, hyper-focusing on metrics like representation in the Fortune 500 C-suites overlooks a lot of other elements of human flourishing. Roxanne noted that we still have not had a society-wide conversation about redefining success and valorizing things like teaching, caretaking, and community-building that have historically been relegated to the feminine sphere.

Katelyn and Roxanne were emphatic that women have a huge stake in helping stem this crisis, even if their first instinct may be an exasperated "Haven't men had their day in the sun long enough?" As Katelyn put it, men's issues are human issues, and in the long run, the genders rise and fall together. Lonely, angry, purposeless men are more likely to lash out in anti-social ways that endanger everyone.

**Watch this episode on YouTube**
https://youtu.be/GPGGTdTEhYw

Previous Episode "Christianity Today Staffers Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone":
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000556178804


____________________________________
REGISTER for THEOLOGY BEER CAMP:
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!
____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/
Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch
Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/
Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)
Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch
Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com
YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98
Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html
Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/
Artwork by sprungle.co/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Between the Church & the World (#185)

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