David E. Woolverton has been a pastor for over 30 years -- serving churches facing turn-around ministry situations. He has a doctorate in Conflict Leadership and has had intensive clinical training in hospital chaplaincy. He is affiliate professor of leadership studies at Evangelical Theological Seminary, Myerstown, PA and a faculty mentor with Kairos University, Sioux Falls, SD. David is a sought-after workshop leader and church consultant in conflict leadership and transitions.
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Episode 128 - Dave Woolverton

A new podcast from Christianity Today, Being Human with Steve Cuss is Christian counseling in podcast form. Steve Cuss, a former trauma and hospice chaplain, pastor, and leadership coach, guides listeners with a gospel-informed journey of discovery into the world of emotional health: everything from anxiety and reactivity, to triangulation, overfunctioning, and the Enneagram.

Religion & Spirituality

Other

Spirituality

Christianity

Buddhism

Hinduism

Judaism

Islam

Health & Fitness

Mental Health

Is the gospel primarily preventative or redemptive? What did Jesus emphasize between the two? 
In this episode of Being Human, Steve is joined by his wife, the Friendly Neighborhood Therapist, Lisa, to consider these questions. They talk about faith gaps, how human development affects the ways we approach faith, and comparing ourselves to the pillars of the faith.
Cuss also reads from his upcoming book, The Expectation Gap, which releases on May 28th. Listeners can preorder here. Get your preorder bonuses here!
Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

The Gap

“Grieve, Breathe, Receive” with Steve Carter

Camino De Santiago


John F. Kennedy, Jr. playing under the Resolute Desk 

The Crown


Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall: A Parent's Guide to the New Teenager by Anthony E. Wolf


Aurora Leigh by Elizabeth Barrett Browning


The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss


Preorder bonuses for The Expectation Gap



“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today 
 Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper 
 Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens 
 Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
 Theme song by Dan Phelps 
 Original Music by Andy Gullahorn 
 Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris 
 Graphic Design: Amy Jones
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is the Gospel Preventative or Redemptive?

Steve Cuss has a special burden for pastors and church staff. As someone who spent 27 years in such roles, he knows the unique challenges personally. On this episode, Cuss shares some of his own journey, including how he struggled with conflating his identities as a child of God and what felt like being an employee of God.
Cuss talks about the gap between what we believe about God and what we experience from God. He guides listeners through the story of Peter walking on water (Matt. 14). Cuss discusses peace, freedom, and love, inviting us to help our body align with our head beliefs so we can relax into God’s presence.
Cuss also reads from his upcoming book, The Expectation Gap, releasing May 28, which listeners can preorder here. Preorder bonuses are available here.
Resources mentioned in this episode include:


Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss

“From a Distance”

Matthew 14


The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss


Preorder bonuses for The Expectation Gap



“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Expectation Gap

“Did you have integrity today?”
That’s the question that Steve Carter, author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Carter realized he couldn’t go “play church.” He had to take the allegations seriously and act with integrity, which, for him, looked like resigning.
On this episode of Being Human, Cuss and Carter discuss what it looks like to have integrity when mentors and institutions fail us. They talk about the heartbreak of losing beloved communities, navigating relationships when people feel betrayed, and how difficult it is to see broken systems when inside them. 
Carter shares how he has dealt with the weight of being misunderstood, the way some of his highest values were wielded against him, and what it was like to deal with public loss and accusation as an Enneagram Three. He and Cuss talk about the power of the resurrection and the two Greek words that became an anchor for Carter. And they discuss what propelled Carter to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a stunning memoir on grief and healing that recounts Carter leaving Willow Creek Church, entering a wilderness season, and enduring loss upon loss upon loss, from income and reputation to precious family members and more.
Resources mentioned in this episode include: 


Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock

Steve Carter


Craft & Character with Steve Carter


Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter


The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter

Willow Creek Community Church

“Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs” 

“Cadet Prayer”

Annie F. Downs

Ira Glass

Camino De Santiago

“What Is a Verbatim?”

Compassion International

“Welcoming Practice”

The Worst James Harden Flops


“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today 
 Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper 
 Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens 
 Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
 Theme song by Dan Phelps 
 Original Music by Andy Gullahorn 
 Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris 
 Graphic Design: Amy Jones
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Grieve, Breathe, Receive with Steve Carter

A systems theorist walks into an organization and orders playfulness and earnestness.
This isn’t just a silly take on a joke format—it’s a tested method of determining whether or not teams have what it takes to go the distance. As host Steve Cuss explains on this episode of Being Human, too much seriousness on a team tends to lead to rigidity, but playful teams tend to be able to handle ambiguity and challenges. 
Could the same be true for worship?
Sometimes we get too earnest and everything gets rigid. In this episode Steve looks at the power of playfulness in your people, how ot notice when things are getting too earnest and stuck and the relationship between playfulness and worship. Steve also teaches us how to use a Life Giving List to help us relax into God’s presence. You can download a life giving list template here. 
Tune in for an episode that invites us to treasure our faith through playful presence with God.
Click here to pre order Steve’s new book.
Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

Bowen family systems theory


Death by Meeting: A Leadership Fable About Solving the Most Painful Problem in Business by Patrick Lencioni


Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton

“Letter XLVI” by Saint Bernard of Clairvaux


The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss


Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman


“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today 
 Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper 
 Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens 
 Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
 Theme song by Dan Phelps 
 Original Music by Andy Gullahorn 
 Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris 
 Graphic Design: Amy Jones
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Playfulness, Earnestness, and Worship

“Jesus cares for our troubles, but they don’t worry him.” 
So says Alan Fadling, who joins host Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. Fadling is an author and the leader of Unhurried Living, a non-profit that trains people to rest deeper, live fuller and lead better. His latest book, The Non-Anxious Life, draws from spiritual formation and touches on systems theory, as well. 
Cuss and Fadling discuss the ways that anxiety is not just a personal dynamic, but an organizational one. They consider what Dallas Willard had to say about anxiety and peace, how anxiety communicates that God is not there for us, and what it may look like to remember that Jesus is present with us. They talk about the differences in believing that “I am anxiety” and “I have anxiety.” And they consider how anxiety influences leadership, our sense of connection with Jesus, and our engagement with culture. 
Tune in for an episode that sheds light on the way of peace.
Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

Alan Fadling


The Non-Anxious Life: Experiencing the Peace of God's Presence by Alan Fadling

Unhurried Living

George Doebler

Bowen family systems theory

Edwin H. Friedman

Dallas Willard

Viktor Frankl


“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper 
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris 
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episode 128 - Dave Woolverton

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