459: Dr. Eric Appelsies | Powerful Inventory Management: Firsthand Experiences From Clinical Work to CEO

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Click this link to get started! https://www.joinordo.com/‍‍Guest: Eric AppelsiesBusiness Name: OrdoCheck out Eric's Media:‍Website: https://www.joinordo.com/Email: [email protected]‍‍Other Mentions and Links:HPSP ScholarshipBank of AmericaWells FargoInvisalignHenry ScheinDarbyNet 32Open DentalGoogle AdsPositioning - Jack Trout and Al Ries‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:

Acquiring an already established practice can be tough when it comes to updating systems and processes!When hiring, be sure to utilize your internal team members and their connections.Try to hone in on 1 or 2 marketing tactics rather than all of them at once.Always have great communication and expectations set with your marketing team.Having an identifier on your phone calls for new and existing patients will streamline your patient acquisition.When ground marketing, make sure you attend the events your target demographic will be at!‍

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Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guest, Dr. Eric Apsey. Eric, how's it going, Eric: man? Doing well. How are you doing? Pretty Michael: good. Pretty good. If you don't mind me asking, Eric: where are you located? I am in Denver, actually, in like the suburbs. Michael: Okay, nice, nice. It's gonna be good weather out there for here for like the rest of the Eric: summer or?Yeah, I think we've heard it's supposed to be, I've read something that was supposed to be hot, but also pretty wet, so it's been a weird, we actually had a pretty, our winters are normally pretty mild. I've been out here like maybe five, six years. This last winter was a rougher winter in terms of snow, and it's been a little bit yeah, it's been a little bit wetter of a spring too than normal, which, you know, like everyone says, you know, you could always use rain, right?I feel like that's what everyone always says, but yeah, I mean, it's normally. Pretty dry here, so it's not a bad thing. So, yeah. Michael: Oh, okay, man. Awesome. So let's jump into it. Let's, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions, all right. Mainly based off of your marketing. So number one, could you briefly introduce your dental practice and the demographic you primarily Eric: serve?Yeah, so I actually, I have two dental practices in Denver. One's in like the kind of south metro area. One's in like the North Metro area, so maybe 30 miles or so apart. Both of them are de Novo offices. The one down south opened in 2017, the one up north in 2019. And the demographics that we primarily serve at the one down south it's a little bit more of an established community.So we see. More adults, empty nesters, not quite as many children. And then up at the north location that's more of a growing and emerging kind of area. Lots of new builds and stuff like that. So we're seeing a lot of younger families there too. So we tend, we tend to see more kids in kind of family age at that location.How Michael: far apart are they normally? Eric: Like those practices? Yeah, about thir, about 30 miles. So, I mean, it takes, depends on traffic, right? But yeah, it can take anywhere, say around 30, 35 minutes apart. Michael: Was that always the goal for you? Like, I want two practices, or was it, I it just started happening.Eric: Yeah, I mean initially, so my, my little backstory, my wife is also a dentist, right? We met in dental school and everything and we always kind of wanted to have at least a couple offices. we love the dentistry part too, but we also like the idea of building our own stuff as well and being able to like create our own vision with our dental practices.So we always knew we kind of wanted multiple ones. And then, I mean, one nice thing is my wife actually was the one that kind of started up. The one down south and was kind of the main driver in there, was the one up north. I was too. So, I mean, kinda the reason we were able to do two is there's just two of us, right?Mm-hmm. So we were able to kind of divide and conquer. So, yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha, Michael: gotcha. so for you, was that always the goal? Like, I wanna do my own practice? Eric: Yeah. I mean, so my journey was after I graduated dental school 2013. Right. And then I ended up doing like a scholarship with the Navy, like the H P S P scholarship.And was in the Navy for four years until 2017. During that time my wife and I had actually bought kind of an old Practice from, you know, an old dentist that really wasn't doing much and kind of fix and flip that. So we had done an acquisition when I was in the military and then from that experience we had said, you know, there were a lot of, there's a lot of challenges with buying a practice that doesn't have like good systems in place and you're just getting it kind of just cheap.So that kind of made us realize, hey, maybe if when we do this again, cause we weren't gonna stay in California where I was stationed, let's look in doing our own thing and doing it from scratch so we can kind of like, you know, create our own vision. Michael: Gotcha. Shit. What challenges were there that you can just think of right now where it's like, man, I don't know, like for acquisitions, if somebody's like, Hey man, I wanna do an acquisition, the first things you wanna let them know Eric: is what, My only experience is buying a practice. So like it was, I think the practice was doing maybe like $360,000, right? It was an old dentist who needed to retire for, you know, certain medical reasons. And so that's my only experience there. So I don't really have any experience if it was like a, you know, a 2 million practice or a really, you know, well ran practice.But from that, The one pro was, yeah, it was really inexpensive to buy. So like going out and getting a bank loan from B of A or Wells Fargo was pretty easy. Right. But it comes with a lot of challenges. Cause you know, obviously with the practice not being that strong of an office. From a production standpoint, made it challenging, more challenging with staff, right?When you wanna put your processes in place. They'd been there for 30 years, right? So we had a lot of challenges. The dentist wasn't honestly the greatest to transition with. There were challenges there too. So even though sometimes I think if you were doing an acquisition and you were trying to do something like we were, where it's like, Hey, I'll buy a practice that's like a cheap practice that looks like it's a gem, right?A lot of times there's a reason that it's a cheaper practice to buy and it wasn't doing well. So, I mean, there, yeah, there were a lot of challenges. So that, that, like, from that, I would say that's You can go into it and do it. Just don't expect, just because it was cheap that it's gonna be like easy at all.It's gonna have a lot of challenges with it as well. Michael: Yeah, I always hear it's like the team where it's like really hard to bring them on board and stuff like that. Eric: Yeah, definitely. Just because like I said, so the other challenge is we did that when, what my wife and I were like, Late twenties. Right. So, you know, and the, the, the team that was all there were in their fifties.Right. So it was a challenge. It, it is a challenge when you're trying to transition from a dentist who's older, had been there forever, the team has been there forever. And then, you know, the new owners or new doctors come in and they're the age of like, That those team members' children, right. So mm-hmm.It was very challenging to get them on board and get that level of respect. that was probably a big challenger. Right? Yeah, Michael: no, definitely, definitely. I get you. Okay, so then number two, in which category would you place your practice? Was it urban, suburban, rural, D s L, private practice, solo, docker, et cetera?Eric: So let's just start the one down south. So that's in a, it's in a suburb area, right? A pretty well established suburb area. It's private practice, right? Cause my, my wife and I own it. There, we have one associate dentist there right now, and a couple hygienists. It's mainly a general, it's a general practice.All the docs that work there are general dentists, but our associate is great with, you know, kind of being a. The super general dentist, right? Like mm-hmm. Enjoys doing third molar extractions, sedation some root canals adult ortho or aligners. All that kind of stuff.So it does help us that we brought on associates who like to do a lot more than I guess what you would typically say a general dentist would do. And then the other location up north. I'm working there. I have another associate doctor that works there as well. Same thing, private practice. And kind of suburb area, but like a growing suburb area.So like a lot of residential, but not really a lot of commercial spaces there yet. So that, that's been really, I'm, I'm glad we kind of made that decision where we picked that location. It's, it's worked out well. And same thing he likes to do, you know, he had gotten the G P R, so he got extra training, which was great.So when we brought him on, he already was comfortable with, you know, all extractions, third molars, sedation, kind of the same stuff as the associate that we have down south. Gotcha. Okay. Michael: Well, how did you find your Eric: associates? kind of a good story. So, the first associate we had just kind of put an ad out, right?And he had reached out to us that he was graduating from his G P R and was moving out to Denver. So, met him, had a, you know, great interview, brought him on, and then my office up north had been growing a lot and this was probably 2021, beginning of 2022. My practice up north was growing a lot and just to expand services and do some of the things that I didn't do as a dentist, I wanted to bring an associate on too that had a wider scope of what they wanted to do.And so my associate down south. he had a friend from dental school who was finishing who was actually working out here had finished his G P R at the same time as that associate down there. Was working a job and just really wasn't that happy. And so it was kind of like an, like a, I didn't have to do any marketing or I didn't have to go through LinkedIn or reach out to people because we had a good relationship with this associate down south.He pretty much said, Hey, I have a buddy who is looking for a new job. I went to school with him. I already know him. It's good. He's a good guy. And so, you know, we were able to bring him on. So, I think that just showed finding, you know, good associates, building good connections with them. That was great that we were able to find another associate just internally, right?Mm-hmm. Versus having to go out and interview a bunch of people, and that's worked out great too. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So you kind of, you, do you always leave it open like as in the sense of like you let your associates know, or your team know like, Hey guys, we're always looking for applicants SMAs or no Eric: on for associate?It probably just depends on, it's all in like capacity issues, right? So right now it, both offices we're pretty like stable where we're at and still growing. But I haven't hit that next point to where. I'm having such a hard time getting patients in for months and months and months that I need another producer right now.I think it's, like you said, it's always good to just keep the door open and just say, Hey, we're continuing to grow. We want to grow as we do, we're gonna need more providers. So, if you know people like, always share the word about your experience here. But like actively all the time.No, and that's just based on like I said, we're pretty stable on the providers we have. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Good man, that's awesome. That's a great way to, uh, you know what I mean, continue to get like associates, especially like, you know what I mean, within your own internal team. Eric: Yeah, yeah. It was great. Cause they all, they already knew each other, right?So when we do meetings and we do things with them and help them grow, it's nice because they already had an existing relationship and so it just, it just creates a really good environment. Michael: Yeah. No, no, no. I, I agree. So then what has been your experience with different marketing companies and which strategies have proved to be the most effective?Eric: Yeah, good question. So experience with different marketing companies. I think probably a lot of the same challenges that a lot of the listeners have here too, you know, I've had as well, it's, marketing. I feel it is such a soft science, right? And it's very easy. To get suckered into companies who we promise you X amount of new patients in this time or your money back, and it's very gim.It can be very, very gimmicky. okay, so going back to the beginning when we had the practice back in California, right? We just kind of did some research, went and saw who had good reviews, marketing agencies picked one who promised kind of the world, That didn't really get delivered after, we noticed after a few months.And so we're like, all right, well that's not really gonna work. And so we had challenges even then when we moved out to, Colorado out here. You know, we had gone through two, three different marketing companies that, first, everything seems great. And then push all these different kind of avenues to grow and do all that.And then when you start trying to track things and figure things out, you're finding that you're maybe not getting the same returns that were promised. So honestly the thing that's really worked for us recently is kind of just going back to the basics a little bit. And so the current marketing company that we use, We're just honing really in and from like a, a digital perspective of just doing Google Ads, making sure we're ranking really well, and that we have really good reviews.We were just finding, with when tracking right on where our new patients were coming from, so many of a majority were coming from, Hey, you guys, you know, rank high and you guys had really good reviews, And that's what everyone was saying. So we listened to what our customers were saying.That's how they were finding us. And so we just kind of doubled down and really focused in on that. And it made it a lot easier because we didn't, now, we don't have, now, I don't have to track direct mailers like I was in the past. I don't have to do as much ground marketing as I was in the past and track all these different things.We were able to just hone in on a couple things, make sure they're done really, really well, and it's worked Michael: nice. Okay. Right now. Could you tell us the name of your marketing company, Eric: the one you're using right now? So I use a guy who is based overseas actually, and it's his name is eSSH.He works with a lot of general practices, works with DSOs as well too. So yeah, that's, that's who I'm using. And that was just from internal referrals from other friends. But yeah, and I haven't really seen a drop off. I mean, at first you're kind of scared sometimes cause you're like, oh, you know, you're outsourcing stuff and you're outsourcing it overseas.But, honestly, the cost has dropped down a bit and I've seen no drop or possibly even a little bit of an increase in the number of new patients I've seen. So, you know, I was hesitant at first, but honestly it no complaints. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. When it came to the marketing companies that promised the world, how long did you stick with them?Eric: Yeah. I mean, you always wanna stick a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you don't wanna be one of those people that just switches after a month or two. We would give it a good, say, six months to a year. Especially because a lot of them, we're pushing direct mailers, right? And so in the beginning we used direct mailers a lot.Like that is what we did. It's expensive. Mm-hmm. And, the whole proposition on that was, well, you know, you gotta hit the consumer three, four or five times with like, same messaging, all that kind of stuff. You gotta put, deals in for place for them, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, you do get calls for 'em.So a lot of times we would wait with a marketer to at least do that first round of direct mail because we didn't wanna like commit and then back out halfway through. But I mean, usually within a first, the first few months little red flags we would notice were, that they weren't tracking the KPIs for us or any type of roi, right?Mm-hmm. On what we were getting. You know, communication was poor. It was almost like they spent a lot of time trying to get me. And then once they had me as a customer, it was kind of like just, okay, now we'll push 'em off, right? Mm-hmm. And so those were some red flags that I had noticed were just, yeah, it was, it was great in the beginning, but after a couple months you're like, all right, well this guy's not responding anymore.You know? He used to respond every, you know, and within 30 minutes and now it's a few days, and so yeah, those are some of the red flags I kind of noticed. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then how much budget do you typically allocate for your marketing Eric: activities? Yeah, so budgeting, like I said right now, because we're really focused in on just a few things.Our ad spend, it is dependent on where you live too, right? Mm-hmm. And how expensive, AdWords are and stuff. But we're spending anywhere from like, say two to three grand a month in ad spend and then just a management fee. Um, That's pretty small to the marketer that I use. So maybe all in for each office we're spending maybe.Three grand at one, four grand at the other, say. And we're seeing on average, say 60 to 80 new patients probably for each office which, happy with. Michael: Yeah, that's really good. So you're getting around a month, 60 to 80 Eric: new patients? Yeah. Each office. Yeah. Got it. Like for e not total. Each office gets between that.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael: So like in total it would be like 160 kind of thing, Eric: right? Like yeah, probably anywhere from, say like, One 30 to one 50 if you averaged it. Probably around there. Yeah. Okay. Michael: On can you tell your highest months? Yeah, I knew we got that much cuz we were spending, or we were doing this or we were doing that, or, or you can't really tell.I mean, Eric: I'm trying, so I was looking back at that our, our biggest month ever was, we've had a couple times that we've gone over a hundred at the location that's up north. Some of that has been, it, it really wasn't that we spent more in ad spend that month. We just had a lot of openings and we had a lot of open capacity at the office.So kind of the issues that I'm starting to run in now is, you know, I'm getting say 60 to 80 new patients, but, just based on the size of the office. a new patient calls, we always try to get 'em in within the week, but I mean, we're starting to book out more so in my head we, I could probably get more new patients in.I'm just running into a capacity issue. So the reason I was able to see a hundred that one month is we just had a lot of openings in that June for some reason. And so we were able just to fill in tons of new patients there. So the positive. From that on my perspective is if I feel like I pushed it harder and either, extended hours or opened up a new operatory, did something like that and created more space to see more patients, then I could, probably get even more new patients in.So yeah, that's probably why we had that higher number. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So it was more slots open, available in the schedule. Exactly. Exactly. Interesting. Okay. And then how equipped is your team in converting calls into actual Eric: patients? I feel like we're pretty good with it. I've made sure to train my team to always answer the phone.And one thing that we've actually done, which is a I forgot where I had learned it, but it was a good little nugget of information that on our phone system, right? When someone calls in, they, you know, it says, Hey, welcome to our office. If you're a new patient, press one. If you're an existing patient, press two, right?Mm-hmm. So if they press one and they're a new patient, the phone will ring longer. It'll go through, I don't know, four or five rings, right? Whereas if it's an existing patient, but it'll go for a shorter period of time. That way, my whole team knows if the calls ring longer, like it's gone through its third ring or its fourth ring, hey that is 100% someone who's calling to be a new patient.You gotta drop what you're doing. You gotta answer that phone. We cannot let that go to voicemail. Right. We need to answer that. Yeah. So we implemented that system in place and so my whole team knows that. Hey, even if I'm doing something else, if I hear the phone ringing and it's still been ringing for longer than normal, I gotta pick that up cause that's probably a new patient.Right? Cuz like all of us know those new patients cost money, right? We gotta put marketing efforts in to get that. So, my team knows to do that and that's a little trick we did to get them on board to answer that and then, We have a, just a very simple paper intake form that just has some basic questions on it that kind of directs our team on what to ask for whether, just a.New patient appointment for a checkup and cleaning, or if it's a limited exam, right, they need to come in for an emergency. If it's a new patient exam, we make sure we build our schedule out that we can get them in within the week, right? Because you don't want a patient calling and saying, oh, well we can't get you, you know?And we say, Hey, we can't get you in for three weeks. They're gonna find somewhere else. Or they'll make the appointment and then not show up. Right? So we make sure we have capacity in our schedule to be able to see them, within a decent timeframe. And then if it's an emergency, one thing I have told all my team is we gotta get them in same day.You know, we don't need to promise that we're gonna start treatment on 'em, right? But we can at least get 'em in to address their concerns and figure out what's going on. Patients really appreciate that, and that has created a lot of goodwill within our community that patients know they can come in and see us.We've had a couple patients who call in for emergencies because the dentist down the street or wherever they normally go, can't see 'em for three days. We get 'em in the same day and then we convert them over to our practice. So it's been a great way to, gain more patience by doing that. Michael: Gotcha.Okay man. So then they basically fill out that new patient form real quick and then bring them in. Eric: Right. Yeah. We have 'em fill in. So everything else is pretty much digital in the office, right? Mm-hmm. So when they fill out that intake form, then it's my scheduler's job or whoever has, whoever's taking the call to find time within our schedule to get them in.We'll try to get, you know, basic insurance information, all that kind of stuff so we can make the appointment go a little more smoothly when they come in, right from that perspective. and then, yeah, they pretty much just, they, we'd get 'em in. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome, man. And then could you elaborate on any unique.Ground marketing or outta the box strategies that have been successful for your practice. Eric: So when we did, because our practices were startups, right? So I feel like in the beginning we had to try to get creative, cuz you come in with no pa, no new patients, right? So, and you don't have, your website isn't built up, you don't have a ton of good reviews, all that kind of stuff.So a lot of the things I'm doing now is a byproduct of. Time, and being able to build all that. But in the beginning, yeah, some of the ground marketing I did and was, we went to all the apartment complexes that were nearby, you know, gave gift, either gift baskets to the people working there or asked to drop certain, flyers and different things in there new mover baskets that they'll give, right?Mm-hmm. To new tenants coming in. And saw some decent results with that in the beginning. I don't do that anymore because it's not, it's not really needed because we. Built up the new patient flow to where it needs to be. But in the beginning, man, you gotta kind of just grind, right? So, I mean, we did that, you know, I went to the towns we're in, they have like festivals, every summer.And so we took a booth out, wore our swag that we had and just, had 'em. Play like a game to win a prize. Then we try to get their information in, you know, as long as they put in their information, then we try to reach out to them later to try to get them to schedule. One issue we did see with that, and it's probably just dependent on the market you're in and where it is is my office is, don't take Medicaid insurance, but one of the festivals we were at, it was a heavy A lot of people who were there, used Medicaid for their dental benefits.And so that didn't work that well for us because, I mean, we didn't really know what the demographic was gonna be, who was gonna be at that, right? Like, there's no way to know that. But that was one good learning lesson is, the, the audience we were targeting wasn't the audience that was at that, mm-hmm.Ground marketing kind of event. Right? Yeah. But you know, I've thrown around tons of other like, kind of ideas, but it kind of goes back to that first point that I had was. initially I think you gotta do some of that ground marketing, but one I think you really hone in and focus in on, you get good reviews, right?As fast as you can. you get really good marketing company that can just build your rankings and build a really good modern website. That's good, that's easy for patients to use. we use a software that has kind of like a local med right, where the patients can schedule online to make it convenient for them.And we just really focusing on building those few things really well. And it's allowed us to kind of step away from having to do all this ground marketing that we, you know, in my head I'm like, oh, this is gonna be huge. Right. Because a, that takes a lot of time too. Mm-hmm. You know, my time, team members time, right.I gotta pay team members to be there, whereas, I have to pay for the Google ad, but don't have to pay for a team member to be there. So, we've definitely pivoted more to just, like I said, focusing in on those few main things and it's, it's been good. Michael: Yeah. The Pareto principle, right?Like you're focusing in on the this pretty good, pretty good. Exactly. Exactly. Have you ever faced a situation where the promised results were not achieved within the expected Eric: timeframe? Yeah, I mean, yeah, kind of like I alluded to earlier, you know, the one good thing about the marketer that I use now is it's pretty straightforward. Easy to get in touch with. I kind of know I, expectations are good, but yeah, in the past, so like, for example, the previous marketer I used. Before this one was a local marketer in Colorado. He was a de dental specific still, right? Like I still reco, you know, I'd still recommend you pick a dental specific marketer, right?Mm-hmm. he had all these huge ideas on what he was gonna do every week. It was, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, and then nothing would ever come to fruition. So that was kind of frustrating. I also found out, cause I had some friends that were clients of his as well.And they, you know, we'd talk and they'd say, Hey, I'm doing really well with him and, we're doing x, y, and z marketing things. And I was like, well, those never, how come those never got mentioned to me? I'm only 15 miles away from this other office. Why? Why is he telling them and not telling me?So I'd have to go back and say, I just talked to my friend, they said they're doing this and this with you. Just how come we're not having consistency here? Like everything's kind of all over the map and not organized. So, that was kind of frustrating as well, where I felt like I wasn't getting at least the options to know everything.Right. so then direct mailers too, like we used those in the beginning. And those, those did work for a bit, but then kind of tailed off and didn't really give us much of an ROI after that. But those were, those cost a lot of money and, sometimes marketers I think would promise, a certain result from those.And then when we would track it, we're like, well, we got like a third of that. Right? Like, Hey, you're gonna get. I'm just throwing random numbers, like you're gonna get 20 calls on this and we'd see like six. Right. And it would be consistent. So I think a lot of times, A lot of times I think it was just over-promising and underdelivering.Mm-hmm. Right. Or with rankings, previous marketer, I used two before this one. That's helped me boost my rankings, All right. How come rankings aren't where they're at? How come I'm still ranked like 20th and there's 20 dentists in the area, right? Why am I at the bottom? feel like we've got good reviews, we've got a good website, all this stuff.Oh, no, no, we're working on it. It takes time. It takes time. three months later, Hey, I'm still 20th, man, you know? Are we working on, oh, yeah, no, no, we're working. We're good. Next month. I'm at 19, right? See, see, we made some progress. Now we're at 19 and it's like, All right. Well, I mean, I'm paying you every month.Like I'd like to see some, possible, some quicker results. What do we need to do that? I'll do what you deem me to do. Just tell me. And so I think we were running into issues where it was just a lot of that Right. Just, you know, mm. Not being able to deliver. Yeah. Yeah. Michael: That's true. I feel like especially the SEO game, It's like that, where they're like, oh, you gotta optimize your website. You gotta piss optimize. You're like, well, whatcha you doing every month to really optimize this thing? Yeah. Paying a fee all the time, you Eric: know? Yeah. And it's not meant to try to be negative on it. I get, it's a really soft science, and I'm not a marketer, so I don't understand all the workings of it, but I think the issue is, is when.The promise or the expected delivery is we're gonna get you on the first page within X timeframe. What would happen is that timeframe would happen and it wouldn't happen. And so then I think as like Dennis, like us, we say, okay, well I just paid you X amount of money with the goal that we would get here.We're not here. And then it was always like a new excuse of why it didn't happen. So, I'm happy with, who I've got now. We've been able to deliver on the results and it's been good. Michael: Awesome man. So who you got now? The marketing company or the guy who's doing your, your marketing right now.What specific actions have they undertaken for you? Like, I know you said they're doing your digital or Google ads, and then at the same time seo, but specifically like what do they recommend from you? Or what they, would they ask for you? Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I'll use Slack, like, I don't know if you've ever used that app.Right. Just to communicate. And so we'll communicate on there. in the beginning he came through and he's like, Hey, I need to, like every marketer, I need to reoptimize your website. Right? So, you know, he went through and he told me, Hey get me a video here. This'll help if we put this here, I wanna put a call to action here.Here's the reason why I need some photos of this, this, and this. And so he would just gimme tasks of what I needed. I would send it to him, and then he would do it. Right. And that's, and we communicate mostly through like Slack, which is kind of nice. And then in terms of ads, a lot of it is, when I do meetings with him, it's, Hey, what do you, at your practice, what are you looking for right now?Right. Do you wanna see more emergencies? Okay, let's push Google Ads. Here's some of the recommendations that I have for ads that we do. Look over it. Tell me if you're okay as well with how it's worded, right? Because we wanna make sure things are worded how we want, right? Because to make sure there's not any, like either errors or we're saying something that we can't promise on, right?So I, I like to just do a quick double check just to make sure, or hey, My associate wants to get more into uh, clear aligners, right. You know, like Invisalign kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And he'd say, okay, let's make a, let's make a landing page and try to put an offer on there.This is what I'm recommending what do you think? And I look my stuff and say, yeah, we're good. So he is like, all right, we're gonna drive traffic to here, and then it's gonna push them through to your site and then they can schedule. Right. So we kind of just are a little more collaborative and we kind of talk about that stuff and then, it's pretty basic.He just tells me what he needs and then he does it right. Which, sometimes, I think we think things have to be complicated for them to actually feel like they're good. And sometimes I think there's a lot of genius in people that can take things that. Are complicated, make 'em very simple and then just make 'em work, right?Yeah. And that's kind of what I've been finding with this marketer. So it's been good. Nice man. Michael: Awesome. Awesome. And then can you share any other strategic changes apart from marketing that you implemented and found to contribute Eric: to your success? So apart from marketing, For us, I think what's helped attribute our to our success in general and being able to grow both the, startup practices I feel like pretty strongly in a, in a relatively short amount of time.It's just having systems and processes in place, right. I kind of had to learn that the hard way. between the two of us, my wife is way more of the systems person, way more of the organized person. Mm-hmm. Hold people accountable. And I tend to just be like the fun one who just comes to hang out.Right. And so there's a lot of cons to being that type of person. Right. Especially when we had our first child a few years ago and she had to step away from the businesses and, then it was all on me to kind of. Take over it. And you know, I knew all the systems, but you know, I wasn't following 'em as much and I didn't track to make sure they were being done.The team kind of noticed I was, not doing my checklist of stuff I had to do in a, and then they stopped. Right? And so it caused the practices to kind of, dip a little bit. And so I kind of had to, Think about all that and kind of have a little heart, heart to it myself and say, Hey man, you got two options.Like we know these systems work. Either need to do it and be the leader of it or don't, and then they'll continue to dip. So once I started following more of our, you know, our systems for how we order our systems for, how we track lab or all that kind of stuff, right? That comes into a practice.Once I started actually. Holding myself and other people accountable to that, then the practices starts to, to get going better again. Right. And doing well again. So I would think the one thing that really contributed and contributes continuously to our success is just having systems in place and making sure that we're following those systems.Michael: Okay, so having systems right now, if you can think about it, what are like one or two systems where you're like, man, we created it. It's a unique system in our practice. We love it Eric: and it's amazing. Yeah, so that's great. I mean, probably for me it's probably all ordering stuff. Right? And then I'll, this kind of goes into, how I ended up creating a software company too that's based on.Like an ordering system. Right. So, little bit of a backstory. So when Covid hit right, it hit all of us as dental offices, right? We were all shut down. It was mandated, you know, some longer, some shorter, but in Colorado we were shut down for six weeks unless it was like a, just a straight up emergency, right?So, say mid-March to beginning of May my wife and I were just home, right? And we brought the office phone back to our office at our house. And we were just answering calls and we kind of said, all right, well, you know, since we kind of have to bootstrap this, the entire staff was furloughed, right?we'll take calls when we're not doing that, what are we gonna do with our time? Like, we had a little kid at home, but like when they're sleeping and stuff, it's like, we're not just gonna sit around and watch tv, right? Like, how can we, how can we actually like take this negative experience and make it positive?So we said, all right, let's look at all of our different processes, What are we doing? Let's look at our systems, let's review everything. So we started to go through all of our different systems and. We had gotten onto ordering and you know, we had a spreadsheet and everything and it was good. It was organized.And at that same time though, I realized that I had to order, right. Usually my assistant ordered, but my order, my assistant's not working for me. So, we were looking and we were trying to find the things that everyone was trying to find. Right. All the PPE you're trying to find. Yeah.Gloves, masks. You know, you've got, I had my Henry Shine tab up and I had my Darby tab up and my net 32, and then some random supplier in like China or something, right? Mm-hmm. And you got all of them up and you're trying to figure out, I need to get this kn N 95 max. No, no, no. It needs to be a level three.No, it needs to at least be this. Right. And then with gloves, but we need, you know, I wear larges. Oh, they only have extra smalls, right? And they're like, crap, okay, what does Darby have? What do they have? And one second, it's in stock. Then you press add to cart and it's now it's unavailable, right?And the prices are skyrocketing and there's all these issues with this. And so we're like, man, this is kind of tough. We're like, I wonder if there's like a better way to, outside of all this covid stuff, just to kind of order in general, right? Mm-hmm. Cause we were seeing all those challenges.So the idea for the software company we created Ordo like O R D O was born and so, They kind of first just started out as an idea to just take all of those vendors that we all use and just have 'em on one platform because, it's so annoying to have to click between 10 different tabs and, compare prices and do all that.So at first, the tool was just built out as a way to link all of the vendors that you have, put 'em on one platform. You search for an item, like if I was searching for Septocaine, right? I press search and then I can see. Septocaine, I can see all the vendors I've linked. I can price compare right then and there in real time.these are all made up numbers, but shine's numbers, it's, it's 45 bucks for Shine, it's, it's 50 bucks for Darby and it's 55 for net 32. Okay, well I'm gonna pick Henry Shine. It's in stock and it's there. So that's where that idea was born to just make it a lot easier for dental offices, assistant office managers, whoever who's ever ordering to be able to just.Place their orders and then it's grown, right? So we went from there and said, all right, well how else do you continue to build out an ordering system? Right? You gotta be able to track your inventory, track your budget, all that stuff too. So we've built out additional features where you know, you can track your budget.In real time so your team knows where they're at. You don't have to have a spreadsheet for that anymore. with inventory we can track all of your orders on one platform from all your different vendors. You can check to see, if it's shipped, you can click on the tracking link to know when it's expected.So pretty much from start to finish, you can order supplies and track all your inventory, which is great. We let users keep their current. Prices if they're part of a buying group, they get to keep the current prices they have with them. So, doesn't create an issue. And then we've even, sorry, I know I get excited about talking about this.No, it's good. It's good. Feel free to stop me if you need me to, but no. One other thing that we did cool that I feel like differentiates us from the other people in the space that are doing something similar is we've actually linked up directly with open dental. Right. You know how their softwares will do that as well.You know, there's a way where you can link your open dental account to Oro and we can first, we can pull all of your budgets automatically. So we'll just take your, you know, monthly report that shows your production or collections, and we can sync it straight into Oro and then it'll update, every month.So your team doesn't have to manually put in all that stuff again. And the other thing that we did that's really cool with Open Dental is we created a feature called FutureCast. And what that does is it allows us to scan your schedule on open dental, either a week out, two weeks out, just you know, certain timeframes into the future.We can compare how many of a certain procedure you have compared to what you normally do, like historically. So like for Example that actually happened. My associate had a ton of extractions scheduled in the following week. He had a full mouth case. He had a thirds case. He had a ton of just single teeth.He had like 30 more extractions than he normally does. That's what we figured out by running future cast. And so what it did is it allowed my assistant to be really proactive and she said, Hey, look, The doc here is doing 30 more extractions. Do I have enough bone graft? Do I have enough sutures?Do I have enough membrane? Do I have enough of the things I need, or my doc needs to be able to do these procedures so it's not Monday and we're scrambling to try to get stuff, you know, next day air sent over. So she was able to be proactive about her ordering. And it solved a huge issue. It was a super smooth week.We kept production. We didn't have to reschedule patients, you know, and everyone got, what they needed to get done and there was no stress then because she just was able to be proactive. But yeah. Cool. Yeah. So, yeah. That's nice man. Pretty Michael: excited about it. Yeah. And this is going live when?Eric: So right now we are just, we just got out of beta. We're doing kind of a soft launch with a few other offices just to kind of work out some final kinks on it. But, our goal is, June 1st, we're gonna start kind of doing a little bit heavier of uh, bringing on some more offices.And then July 1st is when we'd like to be full steam ahead, anyone can join on. And yeah, just go from there. So yeah, we're real, we're really, really excited. A lot of work development takes a long time, but it's definitely been worth it. It's been great. Michael: No man, it's gonna be exciting stuff.Awesome. So we'll talk about that a little bit and especially the exclusive offer you have for our listeners in a bit. But one of the last questions I wanted to ask you is, as a practice owner, what advice would you give to our listeners regarding effective marketing and ROI Eric Applesies DRAFT-cm: tracking? Eric: Yeah, that's a really, really good question.I was kind of contemplating and thinking about that a little bit it kind of goes back to what I've kind of been talking about throughout the podcast, I feel like is. Eventually just once you've got your practice established and you're good, just going back to the basics a little bit on what you're doing with marketing, right?And this is just from like the last year of when we've just kind of gone back to keeping it simple. And I think I tell a new practice owner, Hey, in the beginning you gotta go hard. You gotta ground market, you gotta do whatever you can. You gotta hustle, right? To get those new patients in.Cause you're, you know, if you're a startup, you're starting with nothing. And if you're a transition, I mean maybe not as much cause you maybe already have new patient flow. But I would say it's really just go back to the basics. focus first and on. If you're doing an acquisition, check to see what your reviews are like.If they're not where they need to be, get 'em up. Right? Use a company that does review management, right? There's a ton of 'em out there that'll help make it easy for you, right? Mm-hmm. Build up your reviews. 90 plus percent of your patients it happens every time I tell 'em, or I ask 'em, how'd you hear about us?It's always, you guys had amazing reviews. Right? And they're not just, you know, at our office, we just don't have a five star review with no. Like comment underneath it that the user left, it'll be a five star review and it'll say, I had a great experience. You know, Dr. So-and-so was great. The assistance were great.It's a long response. And potential customers or patients love to see those. So I would say build reviews, build them as fast as you can, and make sure they're quality reviews right. Focus in on that. Focused in on getting a marketing company that, doesn't try to over promise. If they're trying to over promise on stuff and like, Hey, we're gonna make you first in the rankings and all that, it's probably a red flag cuz I don't think they're doing something that's special that another marketing company can't.I have not been convinced yet that there's some special sauce that some market one marketing company has that other ones don't. Right. So, I don't see a lot of difference between them in terms of that. I would say, Get a really good website, make sure it's modern. Something that people wanna see, right?That users don't feel like. Cause if a, if a website feels old or it's not working, then they probably attribute that to your office, right? If it's modern, it looks new, it's clean, it's easy to use, you can schedule online, then you've created a smooth process for them before they've even seen you. So they have the expectations subconsciously in their head that my appointment is gonna be smooth too, right?So make it easy for 'em. And Yeah, and I, I'd say yeah, focusing on, focusing on those Google ads have worked really well for us. They're very hands-off. Once you have 'em running, you don't have to think about 'em. I found more of the marketing that I don't have to think about and just gets done and it gets done effectively.Frees up more time for me and it's less things I have to think about. So that's why I like those as well. But yeah, I would, I would say focusing on those things. Michael: Awesome, man. I appreciate your time. And real quick, where can people find out more about Ordo at the same time? The exclusive deal. All that stuff.Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So our website, it's join ordo.com. Very easy process. Once you go in you can check out the website, kind of see our vendors we have on there kind of see all the features that we have. You can onboard straight from the website, which is great. Onboarding takes safe five to 10 minutes, and then you're good to go.So, very easy as well. And yeah, so the offer that I wanted to, you know, give all the listeners here is just the first month free, That way it gives everyone a chance to use the platform, love it as much as we do. Make sure it's a good fit and everything. And if you just use promo code T D M and you put it in to the end of onboarding, there'll be a spot.Then it'll apply and you'll be good. Michael: Nice guys. So you're gonna get a month for free. Check it out. Taste it, right. Feel it. It's interesting. But future cast is really, really interesting. You know what I mean? Like everything's really great. But that to me, I was like, oh, snap. Eric: Yeah, we're really, and honestly it was through a friend who was like, you know, I was giving, I was just asking some friends about it, and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if we could do this?And I was like, yes, that would be amazing. We should do that. And so, yeah, we built it out. I, I really, I'm really, really excited about that feature. I feel like it's something that hasn't been seen before and it's gonna provide a lot of value to practices, so, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Michael: definitely. Awesome. Eric, thank you so much for your time.If wanted, if anyone wanted to reach out to you, where can they find you? Eric: Yeah my email is Eric e r i c, join ordo.com. So feel free there. And yeah, I'll I'm happy to answer any questions for you. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, along with the exclusive deal and the Ordo website if you guys want to go check it out.And Eric, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear Eric: from you soon. Sounds great. Thanks for having me.‍‍