Summary
In this conversation, Derek Kubilus discusses the concept of sin as the refusal to love and the importance of understanding it in a broader context. He also explores the difference between purgatory and purgation, emphasizing the idea of refinement and growth in the afterlife. Derek shares his perspective on the salvation of those who have done harm and the essence of the divine in every person. He challenges the notion of eternal damnation and highlights the need to respect the pain of others while recognizing the depth of God's love. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the cognitive dissonance of eternal damnation.
Takeaways

Sin is the refusal to love, to include, and to make space for others.

Purgatory is a Catholic concept of a holding period until one goes to heaven or hell, while purgation refers to the process of refinement and growth in the afterlife.

The salvation of those who have done harm challenges our understanding of God's love, but it is a reminder that everyone carries the essence of the divine.

Respecting the pain of others and acknowledging the depth of God's love can help navigate difficult theological questions.

The idea of eternal damnation can create cognitive dissonance and contradict the concept of a loving God.

Chapters
00:00 Understanding Sin and Refusal to Love
41:19 Purgatory vs. Purgation
43:32 The Fire of Hell and the Refusal to Love
44:54 Struggling with the Salvation of Those Who Have Done Harm
46:06 The Essence of the Divine in Every Person
47:08 The Redemption of Paul and the Refusal to Give Up on Anyone
49:11 Respecting the Pain of Others and the Depth of God's Love
51:34 The Network of Relationships in Heaven
53:41 The Inconsistency of Praising God While Others Suffer
56:07 The Cognitive Dissonance of Eternal Damnation
Read Holy Hell: A Case against Eternal Damnation by Derek Ryan Kubilus
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206. Good News: Hell isn't Eternal Conscious Torment! // Derek Ryan Kubilus

The New Evangelicals Podcast is here to push the Evangelical Church forward and to re-think how it approaches key cultural issues.

Religion & Spirituality

Other

Spirituality

Christianity

Buddhism

Hinduism

Judaism

Islam

News

Politics

Summary
John Pavlovitz, author of the book, Worth Fighting For: Finding a Faith That Makes a Better Human, discusses his journey from being a conservative evangelical pastor to a more progressive Christian ethos. Tim and John discuss the tensions between personal convictions and pastoral expectations, the challenges of navigating relationships within the church, and the importance of humanizing people in the midst of political differences.
Takeaways
Many people within conservative evangelical communities feel torn between their convictions and the community they love, making it difficult to navigate their beliefs and relationships.
It is important to humanize people and remember that individuals within the Christian nationalist movement are not a monolith. There is diversity of thought and experience within these communities.
Dehumanization is a dangerous path that can lead to violence, and it is crucial to maintain empathy and respect for others, even in the midst of political differences.
Authentic dialogue, empathy, and compassion are essential in bridging the divide and fostering understanding between different theological and political perspectives. 
Navigating relationships with people who hold different beliefs requires curiosity, understanding, and respect for their journey.
Being a progressive Christian involves the challenge of maintaining relationships while advocating for systemic change.
Unity, empathy, and humanizing the conversation are essential for moving forward and creating a more inclusive society.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
06:15 Humanizing People in the Midst of Political Differences
27:34 Navigating Relationships with Different Beliefs
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The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center.
We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here!
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259. TNE TALKS: Building Bridges with Our Enemies// John Pavlovitz

Summary
In this conversation, Tim and April discuss various topics, including their preferences for living in different states, Tim's love for New Jersey, and April's love for Mexican food. They also touch on the concept of a daily live show, a prayer for lactose intolerance, and a prophecy update regarding the rapture. They discuss the ongoing investigation into the death of Micah Miller and the controversy surrounding Lake Point Church's attempt to skew a traffic study. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss a controversial commencement speech given by Harrison Butker, the kicker for the Kansas City Chiefs. They analyze Butker's comments about women and their roles in society, as well as his views on Catholicism and Christian nationalism. The hosts critique the speech and highlight the harmful and patriarchal messages it conveys. They also address the hypocrisy of Christian nationalists who claim to be persecuted while advocating for discrimination against marginalized groups. The conversation touches on the broader themes of feminism, cancel culture, and the role of men in society.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:22 Living in Different States: Tim's Love for New Jersey
07:03 The Idea of a Daily Live Show
10:21 Prophecy Update: The Rapture
42:20 Introduction: Harrison Butker's Controversial Speech
45:07 Butker's Views on Cultural Values and Media
47:05 Butker's Critique of Catholicism and Pro-Choice Catholics
51:53 The Role of Women in Butker's Speech
55:41 The Importance of Marriage and Motherhood in Butker's Speech
01:09:25 Absentee Fathers and Violence Rates
01:14:06 Reaction to Butker's Speech: Twitter Responses
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The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center.
We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here!
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258. TNE RECAPS: Harrison Butker Fumbles the Ball

Summary
In this episode, Tim responds to a video by Alisa Childers, a prominent figure in the apologetics space. Tim addresses the claim that the deconstruction movement exists only because of social media and argues that deconstruction is not a unified movement but rather an explosion of individuals with different perspectives. He also challenges the idea that words have objective meaning and explores different interpretations of the Bible. Tim concludes by discussing the concept of truth and the limitations of proving historical events like the resurrection of Jesus.
Takeaways
Deconstruction is not a unified movement but an explosion with a diverse individuals with different perspectives.
Social media has played a significant role in the deconstruction movement by providing a platform for people to share their experiences and access alternative perspectives.
Christianity has different metanarratives depending on the particular stream of Christian thought.
The concept of truth in Christianity is complex, and the ability to prove historical events like the resurrection is limited.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Conversation and Background on Alisa Childers
02:04 Deconstruction as an Explosion, Not a Unified Movement
05:12 The Influence of Social Media on the Deconstruction Movement
08:37 The Challenge of Objective Meaning in Words
13:02 The Diversity of Interpretations in the Bible
16:32 Different Metanarratives in Christianity
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Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community!
If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here!
Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals 
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The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center.
We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here!
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257. TNE RESPONDS: Alisa Still Doesn't Understand Deconstruction

Summary
Ryan George grew up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church and experienced both abuse and healing within the church. He shares his story of growing up in a conservative and abusive environment, where rules and regulations were enforced to an extreme degree. Ryan's father, a pastor in the IFB network, was later exposed as a serial sexual predator. Ryan reflects on the spiritual and physical abuse he endured, as well as the ways in which the IFB culture justified and perpetuated this abuse. It was through therapy, healthy relationships, and experiencing true love and community that Ryan began to recognize the abuse he had endured and find healing. Ryan George shares his journey of healing and redemption after experiencing spiritual abuse and the harm caused by his father. Despite the pain and trauma, Ryan found healing in the church through authentic relationships and a personal connection with God. He emphasizes the importance of finding safe spaces and supportive communities where individuals can share their hurts and doubts. Ryan's story highlights the power of redefining one's understanding of God and finding healing in unexpected places.
Takeaways
The IFB culture enforced extreme rules and regulations, leading to spiritual and physical abuse.
Through therapy, healthy relationships, and experiencing true love and community, Ryan began to recognize the abuse he had endured and find healing. 
Authentic relationships and supportive communities in the church can play a crucial role in the healing process.
Redefining one's understanding of God and finding a personal connection can lead to healing and transformation.
Safe spaces where individuals can share their hurts and doubts are essential for healing and growth.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction: Hurt and Healed by the Church
07:37 The Dark Side of the IFB: Serial Sexual Predators
26:59 Introduction and Background
37:07 Navigating the Church After Spiritual Abuse
45:02 Finding Healing and Redemption in the Church
Register for Faith and Politics for the Rest of Us
Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community!
If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here!
Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals 
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The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center.
We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here!
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256. TNE TALKS: The Church Hurt Me Then it Healed Me // Ryan George

Summary
In this episode April and Tim discuss the Mica Miller case. The hosts discuss the controversy surrounding the viral video of the pastor announcing his wife's death during a sermon. They mention Mica's mental health struggles, reports of abuse, and the couple's separation and divorce filings. They explores how the evangelical world broadly addresses allegations of abuse, the toxic positivity within evangelicalism, and the need for a more inclusive and supportive church culture. The hosts emphasize the importance of mental health support and resources for those in abusive relationships. They also discuss the flaws in gun laws and the dangers of overlooking red flags within church leadership. They also discuss which tweet will be awarded "the tweet of the week".
Takeaways
When discussing sensitive topics like mental health and abuse caution and sensitivity is key.
Information in the Mica Miller case is still being released and it's important not to jump to conclusions without waiting for more data.
The conversation raises questions about Mica's husbands' behavior and the dynamics of his relationship with his wife. Mica Miller's death highlights the need for mental health support and resources for those in abusive relationships within the church.
Toxic positivity within evangelicalism can prevent individuals from seeking help and acknowledging mental health struggles.
Gun laws should be more thoughtfully created to prevent individuals in vulnerable mental states from accessing firearms.
Church leadership must be held accountable for overlooking red flags and enabling abusive behavior.
Contact the National Domestic Violence Line
Contact the National Mental Health Crisis Line
Pre-Order Star Spangled Jesus: Leaving Christian Nationalism and Finding a True Faith by April Ajoy
Register for Faith and Politics for the Rest of Us
Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community!
If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here!
Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals 
Subscribe On YouTube
The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center.
We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here!
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206. Good News: Hell isn't Eternal Conscious Torment! // Derek Ryan Kubilus

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