388: How product leaders work well with legal resources – with Ryan Lewendon

How to tap into the valuable resources your legal counsel can provide – for product managers

Today we are talking about product leaders using legal resources. When and why should product VPs, CPOs, and other senior product roles involve legal resources? While that question is directed to executive team roles, I expect product managers will also discover how legal resources can be wisely leveraged.

Joining us is Ryan Lewendon, partner at the Giannuzzi Lewendon Law Firm, helping founders navigate growth and reach their full potential. He has helped several brands grow and overcome obstacles, especially consumer product companies. This has included successful exits with acquisitions by companies that include Coke, General Mills, Boulder Brands, Bacardi, and more. I’m looking forward to learning from his experience.

Summary of some concepts discussed for product managers

[2:29] What kind of law do you practice?

We focus on fast-growing, disruptive consumer products companies—anything you put in or on your body. My partner and I were the first lawyers for Vitamin Water from when it was just an idea until we sold it to Coke for $4.7 billion. We did every corporate legal thing they needed. After that we realized there weren’t a lot of lawyers interested in helping disruptive brands, and we had a great playbook for how to build a disruptive business and an aptitude for working with the underdogs in consumer packaged goods (CPG). Now we work with over a thousand companies, from huge companies to startups, over their whole lifecycles.

We work in several verticals. We help companies with financing. We have experience and downstream vision to help companies know what they should and shouldn’t do when they’re raising capital at different stages and negotiating with investors to set up for longterm success. We help companies spend money to implement their plan. We help them solve the problems directly in front of them and the problems down the line to help the company grow all the way through an exit.

[10:48] How can products leaders and managers do a better job engaging legal resources to help create a new product?

Lawyers get a bad rap for being people who say no and stifle innovation, but they can provide valuable resources.

A good in-house legal counsel is a translator between the C-suite executives and the external legal counsel. They’re going to communicate whatever you put forth to the external counsel, and how it’s presented will have a big impact on whether you get a rubber stamp. If you can get the in-house counsel on board with what you’re trying to do, you’ll have a much higher chance of success. Establish trust with your in-house counsel. Don’t hide parts of the story from them. Tell them all the issues, the reason you’re creating this product, and what you’re hoping to achieve. Talk through the negatives first. Tell them the issues that might be problematic and explain how you’re going to deal with them. Business people focus on the upsides and winning scenarios. Lawyers look at the downsides and worst cases. If you provide a proposal that looks at the upsides, acknowledges the downsides, and describes mitigators for those downsides, you’ve done a lot of the in-house counsel’s job. All they have to do is translate it to the external counsel.

[17:02] When does the external counsel get involved?

A good in-house counsel does almost no legal work. They’re just a conduit between the company and the external counsel. There are lots of legal issues at a company, and the in-house counsel can’t address them all themselves. Also, using external counsel provides a professional coverage against liability.

You can’t choose your in-house counsel , but you can choose your external counsel. When you’re trying to get a disruptive innovation passed,