How to Engage in "Healthy Conflict": Mark Goulston, MD, on PYP 545

Content warning: this episode discusses suicide and suicidal ideation. If you are having thoughts of suicide, call or text the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 or go to SpeakingOfSuicide.com/resources for a list of additional resources.

Mark Goulston, MD, was kicked out of medical school twice before he returned to complete his degree.

And a good thing for the world that he had the perseverance to continue -- as well as the psychologically wise support of the Dean of Students.

This dean provided Mark, at one of his lowest moments, with what he now calls the "trifecta of hope." This trifecta is what any of us can give to someone who is struggling and who sees little reason to carry on.

Here are the three elements:

Unconditional loveA positive future that they can't see themselvesTaking a risk on their behalfDuring his second year away from school, Mark worked at the Menninger Foundation, then in Topeka, Kansas. And there he discovered his "knack," his gift: getting through to severely schizophrenic patients and making their lives better.

Upon his return to med school at UCLA, he trained in psychiatry, which became his career.

In our conversation, we covered a wide range of topics.

We discussed suicide. Specifically, a technique that Mark calls "surgical empathy" as a response to suicidal ideation that allows the patient to feel "felt" and heard, and let go of any plans for self-harm.

We talked about psychedelics, and how they can positively impact mental health -- and some ways to get their benefits without actually taking them.

We discussed curiosity as a antidote to emotional pathology, and got a wise lesson in life from one of Mark's mentors, Larry King.

And we went in depth into -- not one-off conflict resolution, but learning how to derive ongoing benefit from conflict. Mark shared a way of looking at conflict that can transform it from something to avoid at all costs into a valuable source of insight, progress, and intimacy.

Mark shared a technique for nipping "sideways-going" conversations in the bud that relies on a simple empathy-building question: "What's it like for them right now?"

Along with several other simple, profound, and extremely accessible techniques for turning shitty moments into healing and growth experiences for individuals and relationships.

Links

Mark's Website: MarkGoulston.comAssessment: How Well Do You Communicate During Conflict?, in Harvard Business Review

"Why People Kill Themselves (and Others)"Mark's Podcast: "My Wakeup Call"LinkedIn Video Series: 90-second Mentor