In this episode, Wendy speaks with clinical researcher Peter Wayne about his work on mind-body and movement-based interventions like tai chi. Their conversation covers many topics, including:
how a background in ecology informs his research;
embracing multiple causes of any outcome;
how to do non-reductionist science;
removing the hyphen from the mind-body system;
harnessing the wisdom of the body through contemplative practice;
the value of first-person narrative in research;
safety and trauma in the body;
the relationship between physical and emotional patterns;
how the concept of the subtle body relates to Western views;
the role of integrative medicine in dealing with climate change;
and bringing together multiple perspectives to investigate the mind & healing.
Full resources and show notes

Peter Wayne - Ecology of Mind

Exploring frontiers of contemplative science—discussing mind, meditation, and more.

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In this episode, Wendy speaks with psychologist and contemplative researcher Simon Goldberg. Simon uses tools drawn from psychotherapy research to better understand the therapeutic processes and outcomes of mindfulness and meditation-based interventions. This conversation covers many topics, including:
 
 
coming to practice through one's own suffering;
 
what we know from science about whether and how meditation "works;"
 
the nuts and bolts of meditation research, and the importance of control groups;
 
the file drawer effect and publishing negative findings;
 
common factors in healing interventions;
 
working with the self in psychotherapy vs. Buddhism;
 
the critical role of acceptance;
 
some challenges when measuring effects of meditation;
 
individualizing contemplative practice to suit the person;
 
delivering and studying meditation interventions through apps;
 
and the possibilities of AI to help support meditation practice.
Full show notes and resources

Simon Goldberg – The Shape of Healing

In this episode, Wendy speaks with educational leader, writer, and climate activist Diana Chapman Walsh. Diana had a long and successful career in public health at Boston and Harvard University, and then became the president of Wellesley College, a position she held for 14 years. Diana has become an icon in educational leadership, and advocates that education can be both an intellectual and a spiritual journey. This conversation covers many topics, including:
 
 
her path into contemplative practice and leadership;
 
the importance of knowing and questioning oneself;
 
vulnerability and responsibility in leadership;
 
how the qualities of a leader influence the system they are leading;
 
hierarchical vs. inclusive systems;
 
the five principles of trustworthy leadership;
 
interconnectedness as an underlying truth;
 
building community amidst the climate crisis;
 
how feedback loops can accelerate harm or spur change;
 
and encouragement to tell our stories.
Full show notes and resources

Diana Chapman Walsh – Contemplative Leadership

In this episode, Wendy speaks with psychologist and author Daniel Goleman. Dan has been fostering and contributing to contemplative science since the very early days of the conversation between science and Buddhism, and his long experience with meditation helped shape his notable work on emotional intelligence. This conversation covers many topics, including:
 
 
his interest in both Western and Asian systems of mind;
 
his relationship with the Dalai Lama and involvement in Mind & Life dialogues;
 
how the conversation between science and Buddhism has influenced both sides;
 
when emotions become "destructive;"
 
the birth of contemplative science;
 
social emotional learning (SEL) in education;
 
links between emotional intelligence and contemplative science;
 
"McMindfulness" and the varying goals of practice;
 
nonconceptual states and dissolving the self;
 
navigating the complexities of science communication;
 
the latest research on emotional intelligence in organizations;
 
how awareness is (or isn't) showing up in the world;
 
and how he relates to meditation now.
Full show notes and resources

Daniel Goleman – Beyond Emotional Intelligence

In this episode, Wendy speaks with neuroscientist Robin Nusslock. Robin has long been interested in the mind through both scientific and Buddhist lenses, and he trained with Richie Davidson. His work focuses on the brain's role in our emotional life, how stress impacts many of our bodily systems, as well as social determinants of health. This conversation covers many topics, including:
 
 
his long interest in mind & Buddhism;
 
basic pathways of how stress gets into the body;
 
how the brain learns threat and safety;
 
effects of early life trauma on brain and behavior;
 
our brain's reward systems and relevance to Buddhist ideas;
 
craving and addiction;
 
pathways toward change, neuroplasticity and pause;
 
social and environmental determinants of health;
 
epigenetics and intergenerational trauma;
 
biology is not destiny;
 
how we can intervene and promote flourishing;
 
family-level interventions;
 
reducing exposure to adversity;
 
economic interventions (e.g., universal basic income);
 
teaching science and research to Tibetan monastics;
 
studying lucid dreaming with monks;
 
and fruits of the exchange between Buddhism and science.
Full show notes and resources

Robin Nusslock – How Stress Gets Under Our Skin

In this episode, Wendy speaks with philosopher and cognitive scientist Hanne De Jaegher. Hanne was influenced by Francisco Varela's ideas from an early age, and has been working to extend enactive theories of mind into social contexts. This conversation covers many topics, including:
 
 
roots in Varela's work and an early interest in thinking;
 
sense-making and embodiment as foundational to cognition;
 
how our habits and models fit (or don't) with our experience;
 
participatory sense-making and the primacy of interaction;
 
how interpersonal dynamics can have a life of their own;
 
loving and knowing, letting others be;
 
over- vs. underdetermining (how our projections of others shape interactions);
 
emotional capacity and dementia;
 
understanding autistic people from their own side;
 
the need for people in dominant positions to listen;
 
the importance of silence in dialogue;
 
problems with the way social media platforms discourage interaction;
 
interactions within one person;
 
synthesis and breakdown;
 
tension between self and interdependence (creating boundaries);
 
and applying these ideas to our relationship with nature.
Full show notes and resources

Peter Wayne - Ecology of Mind

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