“You don’t know God,” the elder leaned forward and said to me. He knew I was preparing to divorce my emotionally abusive husband.

My body began to tremble. My voice shook. 

I realized later that he was right. His god was vindictive and cruel, like a mythological Zeus. 

The God I know — deeply, intimately, since I was a child — is gentle and kind and leads me away from fear and control.

That was the first church meeting I ever walked out of. And the last one I ever had with those elders. 

It’s also when I realized that I could fly free. So can you. 

In this episode with licensed marriage and family therapist Naomi Norton, we discuss:

- 11 dominant fears the Christian community uses to influence (CONTROL) women
- Why being connected to the physical (your body, emotions) is so important
- How to prioritize, process, and honor fear
- What the church usually says about fear (and why their perspective is SO DANGEROUS)
- How being aware of fear (the types, the ways they surface) can HELP US PROTECT ourselves
- Why moving toward fear is often NOT a good or godly response
- The reason you love God but you’re afraid of him (and how to get rid of that fear)
- How to respond to people (often church people) who USE FEAR TO CONTROL US

Listen or download the transcript at flyingfreenow.com/194

FREE: I'll send you the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage. Just hop on my mailing list at flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download. (I will NEVER spam you or sell your information.)

Desperate for real help and safe people who understand what you're going through? Find out about my online education and support program for women of faith at joinflyingfree.com

And, if you are an already divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, have amazing relationships, build a business or career, or even find a good man - check out joinflyinghigher.com

What Role Does Fear Play in Our Religion and Our Relationships?

Flying Free is a support resource for women of faith who need hope and healing from hidden emotional abuse, spiritual abuse, and narcissistic abuse. Because of misogynistic theology taught in controlling and spiritually abusive churches, many Christian women find themselves in destructive marriages where there is an uneven power dynamic. Male partners use their status as a husband to gain power and control over a woman’s mind, emotions, body, social life, finances, and more. When she tries to get help from her equally abusive church environment, she is betrayed and re-abused. Flying Free offers a Christ-centered, gospel-oriented perspective on domestic abuse that protects and honors the voices and autonomy of women. Tune in each week to hear conversations with emotional abuse advocates and fellow survivors who will walk with you on your journey up and out. We hear you. You are not alone. Learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

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We talk about the abuse so much, we sometimes forget about the actual healing process. That’s why I’ve invited my long-time friend and seasoned guest Bob Hamp back on the Flying Free Podcast. Bob knows how painful and necessary the healing journey is, and he has some incredible golden nuggets of wisdom to share today that you do not want to miss. 
 Some key points include How Bob found himself in the advocate world and his backstory Why trying to find resources for your abuser really isn’t helpful How our bodies were designed to help protect usWhat the word “introject” means and how it relates to youA parable about a hiker that will help you with your healingHow your childhood dreams can help you healRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here Related Resources:Connect with Bob on Facebook and Twitter.Check out Bob’s incredible “Think Differently” book series.Experience Bob’s new Sunday morning spiritual growth community, The Living Room, by becoming a Think Differently Academy member. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, natalie@flyingfreenow.com, and we'll get you set up!) Bob Hamp is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist as well as an author and teacher. His life message has always been about freedom and healing. He and his wife, Polly, are the founders of Think Differently Academy, an online community for training, personal growth and healing. He and Polly have six kids and six grandkids with one more on the way.

What the Healing Journey Looks Like

Today I’m going to teach you how to use the same CBT triangle tool I use with the women I work with, my kids, and even myself to help us all understand and gain self-awareness around our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.  
 This CBT tool has three parts that can assist you in changing the way you think, and as a result, change your life and the lives of your kids. 
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here Related Resources:Previous episodes where I talk about this tool: Episode 160, Episode 105, and Episode 107.Previous episodes where I talk about sex: Episode 104, Episode 108, Episode 170, Episode 221, and Episode 230.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, natalie@flyingfreenow.com, and we'll get you set up!) 


Teaching Children the CBT Model Tool

Ryan George grew up with a father who abused him, a church that hurt him, and a heart that needed healing. Even after learning he wasn’t the only one being abused at the hands of his father, Ryan still found healing he desperately needed, and he’s on a mission to help others heal, tell their story, and live life to the fullest.   
 Together, Ryan and I talk aboutRyan’s story growing up in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches How Ryan found out about more of his father’s victims outside of their familyWhy Ryan’s book was written to shine a light on problematic theological issues in the church in order to prevent more victims from being hurtHow finding a healthy church changed Ryan’s life and beliefsWhat you should look for when searching for a healthy churchAnd more! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here Related Resources:Grab your copy of Ryan’s newest book, Hurt and Healed by the Church, as well as his first book, Scared to Life.Check out Ryan’s blog, Explorience.Connect with Ryan on Instagram and Facebook. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, natalie@flyingfreenow.com, and we'll get you set up!) Ryan George is the author of Hurt and Healed by the Church, and Scared to Life. He’s the blogger behind Explorience.org. He co-founded and co-leads Dude Group, a spiritual adventure community in the Blue Ridge Mountains where he lives with his wife, Crystal, and daughter, Deonnie.

Is Your Church Safe?

BILL! My friend, Bill, wrote a little comment on my site that I wanted to share with you all. It wasn’t a nice comment, but honestly, that’s what makes this episode fun! Let’s take a look at what our little gaslighting friend said and examine more closely where he got it wrong.  Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here Related Resources:My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, natalie@flyingfreenow.com, and we'll get you set up!) 

The One About Bill

Once upon a time, I dared to write a letter to the pastor of a church I was attending at the time (after having been excommunicated from another church for telling the truth about my life, requesting help, and then acquiring a divorce to protect myself). In my letter, I wrote that his sermon that morning did not take into account abuse survivors' experiences—survivors who were probably sitting in the pews that morning confused and scared about what he was preaching at them. I wanted him to hear his own words from a different perspective—a survivor’s perspective. Surely this letter wouldn’t fall on deaf ears. He was a shepherd representing Jesus, right? He loved his flock and would want to care for their hearts, right? 
 Wrong.  
 Let me read you the letter I sent him, and then let me read you his letter back. It may shock you that a “shepherd” would respond this way. It shocked me then, too, but it doesn’t shock me anymore. I’ll tell you why in today’s episode. 
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here Related Resources:My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, natalie@flyingfreenow.com, and we'll get you set up!) 

What Role Does Fear Play in Our Religion and Our Relationships?

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