How do you know what to charge for your product? How do you negotiate with customers and leave the least money on the table? And not just for one transaction but for the long run? On today’s episode, Part II of our interview with Jay Jacobs, we discuss strategies that you can use the next time [...]
The post What Should I Charge for My Parts?, Jay Jacobs (Part II) EP-197 first appeared on Today’s Machining World.

What Should I Charge for My Parts?, Jay Jacobs (Part II) EP-197

Noah Graff, used machine tool dealer and editor of Today’s Machining World, interviews machining company owners, equipment gurus, and experts with insight to help and entertain people working in the machining field. We discuss topics such as how to find quality employees, customer acquisition, negotiation, and the best CNC equipment options for specific jobs.

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Using savings to buy a 20-year-old Swiss machine that’s been sitting idle for year is a gamble. Buying one to start a machining company without any customers yet or a place to put the machine means really going ALL IN.
Today’s podcast is Part II of my interview with Dulio Arellano, founder of Premier Swiss in Addison, Illinois.
We’re continuing Dulio’s story, discussing how he transitioned from working in job shops to becoming one of Tornos USA’s top technicians, and then how he rolled the dice, purchasing a used Tornos DECO 10 to start his own machining company.
If you haven’t listened to Part I (Episode 218) I suggest you check that one out first.

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Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion!
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Interview Highlights
 
Working On the Shop Floor
Noah Graff: Why do you feel it’s important for you to still work alongside your people on the shop floor?
Dulio Arellano: There are a lot of benefits to being involved in the shop, even if you could step back and just concentrate on other things like sales and office-related tasks for running the business. This is not only for the owner but also for companies that have managers, lead persons, or people with jobs in the office.
The attitude of the people is much different if you come out there and work with them. In my point of view, it’s kind of like, okay, I’m the owner, and I care about the shop more than anybody here. That’s why I’m going out there and talking to the people. 
If you go out there in the shop and talk to the people, try to make their jobs easier. When people see that things are running, they change their attitude. I have a couple of guys that work here who have told me that they’re very proud to work here because, as an owner, you might see me at my desk for a full day working on sales and trying to close deals. But the next day, I might be underneath the machine, full of oil, changing the motor and helping this guy trying to do something or figuring things out so they run well.
 
Advice for Starting a Machining Business
Noah Graff: Do you have any advice for people out there thinking about starting a machining business?
Dulio Arellano: I think that for the people who are thinking of starting a business, they just have to keep in mind that if they really want it, it’s going to happen, but it’s going to require a lot of patience and a lot of hard work. It’s not easy, and it doesn’t happen fast. And if you don’t enjoy the work, if you don’t do it because you like the kind of work, if you don’t like the pressure or being in that position solving problems, maybe it’s not for you. 
 
Being Flexible to Change Directions in Life
Noah Graff: How did you expect your life to turn out until now versus how it actually did?
Dulio Arellano: Well, I had learned from starting the business and from taking the job at Tornos that I wasn’t expecting to take, that you always have to have goals. But you also have to be open to what opportunity presents and be willing to switch directions at any minute. That could be a slight change or a complete change to another direction if the right opportunity presents itself.
I don’t know what the future holds. I don’t know how the market is going to be, what field we’re going to go into, if I’m going to continue expanding, if I’m going to reduce the amount of equipment I have, or if I’m going to upgrade the equipment. I just know that I have my goal on where I want to be, but at the end of the day, I think that things happen and push you in a certain direction where you must go. 
That’s how it’s been in the last six years that I’ve been in business. I plan certain things, and things go in a different direction. You have to change, make things work, or take the opportunity and change your plans.
 
 
The post Betting Your Savings to Start a Machining Company, Dulio Arellano (Part II)—EP 219 first appeared on Today’s Machining World.

Betting Your Savings to Start a Machining Company, Dulio Arellano (Part II)—EP 219

Have you ever wondered what it takes to manufacture luxury watches that cost tens of thousands of dollars? This is the episode to find out!
Last week I reconnected with Josh Shapiro to tell him about a used Willemin 408MT Graff-Pinkert had for sale. He told me that he was extremely excited for his new line of watches coming out that he has been working on for years. He is finally going to be producing the entire movement in his watches.
Please have a listen to one of our most popular interviews on the show!
 
Our guest on the podcast today is a machinist, entrepreneur, and master craftsman.
Josh Shapiro is the owner and founder of JN Shapiro Watches, one of the few high-end luxury wristwatch makers in the United States. His latest line of watches will be priced at $70,000 dollars and up.
His operation uses the most state of the art CNC Swiss and turn mills, as well as manual turning technology developed as far back as the 1500s!
Listen to the podcast or read the highlights to learn how Josh is producing watches like nobody else has in United States for last 50 years.
You can also view the podcast in video form on our YouTube Channel.


      


Highlights from the Interview
Noah Graff: First, explain your company, JN Shapiro.
Josh Shapiro: We make high-end luxury wristwatches. We’re one of the very, very few companies in the United States that manufacture watches. We started out just making the faces of the watches. Our expertise is with something called Guilloche, which is doing engraved geometric shapes on the faces of watches, and that’s done using non-motorized, very old school machines. They’re really special. From there we moved on to making our own cases. Now we are very close to having our first prototype completely in-house movement done.
 
Graff: How much do the watches cost?
The price was $30,000 to $40,000 depending on the case material. The new series that we’re going to launch soon is $70,000 up to about $85,000, depending on material and customization.
JN Shapiro Watch
So they’re very expensive, but we put in about 400 to 500 hours on each timepiece. So much time goes into making each one of those watches. 
 
Graff: How did you get into watchmaking?
Shapiro: I just had a love of old things, so I ended up becoming a history major and then becoming a teacher.
I walked into a local watch store here in Los Angeles called Feldmar when I was about 25, and just fell in love with watches.
One of the first watches I saw was a Skeleton Chronograph watch. There was just so much going on there. It was so fascinating to me. Watches are mechanical. Watches are a really beautiful thing. It’s wearable jewelry that’s functional. It’s fascinating how the gear train flows together. How the escapement functions, the pendulum, just the whole interplay of all the pieces.
While I was a teacher and principal, I was doing watchmaking as a hobby. Then around 2015, I purchased a really nice set of Guilloche, or engine turning machines, and that allowed me to do professional level work. I started producing watch faces, watch styles for other watchmakers, and started thinking in the back of my head of launching my own brand.
Around 2018, I launched my first series, and that’s when I started really reducing my role as a principal, until finally leaving completely two years ago.
 
Graff: Explain engine turning
Shapiro: The concept is there are cams made out of bronze on the spindle of the machine, and those cams are rocking against the stop. As the spindle is turning, it’s creating these geometric patterns. Then you can phase the cam, independent of the workpiece, and you can create these really beautiful geometric shapes.
It’s an old art. Engine turning machines have been around since the time that lathes came into existence, around 1500.
I have a number of them. The first one I bought, I scraped together every cent I had to afford it. Then, then I ended up selling that set of machines and buying another set of machines. The second set of machines cost me around $30,000. I didn’t have that much money, so I had to sell my 67 Mustang Fastback to afford it.
 
Graff: How many staff do you employ for making the watches?
Shapiro: It’s me plus seven. I’ve taught everyone in the company how to do engine turning. I have one trained CNC machinist. I have another watchmaker who is turned into a CNC machinist. I have three other watchmakers who are doing various watchmaking tasks and manual machining tasks.
I have one person who’s a trained jeweler, who has pursued a whole career in hand engraving, and one admin. So everyone has a really great skillset and really enjoys making things. 
 
Graff: Tell me about the various machines in your shop.
Shapiro: My first big CNC machine, which we still have, is a Haas office mill. That’s actually a great watchmaking machine, and there’s a lot of people in Switzerland that have these Haas office mills because they’re really, really accurate. 
Then we got a Hardinge, HLV, which is like the premier tool room lathe.
And then we picked up the, the (Citizen) L20 from you that was to practice on before we got our new shiny L12, which is getting here Wednesday. 
The big machine that we got this year was a Kern Evo. Kern makes the most accurate milling machines on the planet.
It’s a sub-micron machine. We can’t measure sub-micron here in our shop, but it’s nice to know that we’re working with the machine that accurate, that precise. It’s the first Kern Evo used for watchmaking in the US, which is really exciting.
 
JN Shapiro Watch Parts
Graff: Explain the watch movement
Shapiro: A movement is the guts of a mechanical watch. It’s everything inside of it, just like a car engine and transmission. There are some [watch] brands in the United States that do cases and dials, and some purchase everything from Switzerland. They’re just designed in the United States, like Shinola watches. You know they’re importing a good chunk of all their stuff. They got in trouble with the FTC for saying it was American made. 
Slowly more is being done here. Our watch that we’re working on is the first time since the sixties that all the parts, all the little parts, everything are made in the United States. 
The old series, the Infinity series, that we sold out on, we were making the case, the hands and the dial. So not the movement of the watch.
That was according to plan. I did the Infinity Series to have the funding to grow the company enough to be able to make the movement. Some people make the mistake of trying to do the movement, which is the most difficult thing, right off the bat. And if it’s not a critical success, then they’re out of business.
 
Graff: Why do people buy expensive watches?
Shapiro: I guess the best example is if you look at the car world. You can buy a Toyota or Honda, and it’ll get you from point A to B, and you can also buy McLaren and it’ll get you from point A to B. From the outside observer, they say, okay, the McLaren looks cooler and rich people buy it.
But then you get into the engine. You know the car goes fast—very, very fast. There’s a ton of engineering that goes into the car to make it be able to do that.
The quality of the parts that are in the car are produced at a much higher level than in a car that’s mass produced. It’s the same thing for a watch. It tells the time, but the quality and time that we put into each and every one of the parts is astronomic.
[A watch] is something that’ll last hundreds of years. It’s a piece of art, and it’s functional art that you can wear on your wrist. Art is the spice of life. It’s not something that’s necessary for you to eat, or live. But it’s what makes our civilization special beyond just being a toy for wealthy people. 
When someone sees a work of art it’s inspiring, and that’s what we do with our watches. They’re more than just time telling devices.
Question: What is your favorite watch?
The post Manufacturing a $70,000 Wristwatch in the United States, with Josh Shapiro EP-174 first appeared on Today’s Machining World.

Manufacturing a $70,000 Wristwatch in the United States, with Josh Shapiro EP-174

My guest on today’s show immigrated to the United States from Mexico at 18 years old, went to tech school, worked his way up in job shops, became one of the top technicians at Tornos, and then founded his own successful job shop.
Dulio Arellano is the founder of Premier Swiss, a Tornos Swiss screw machine shop in Addison, Illinois.
He is one of the most knowledgeable people I know about Tornos Swiss machines throughout the world, and whenever we talk he always has fascinating insight about entrepreneurship in the machining business. He’s really good at all the stuff I’m always working on like negotiation, networking, and finding deals on used equipment. He’s also a heck of serendipity creator.
I actually had him on the show four years ago, but we’re both significantly better at our crafts now, and his business has grown a lot since the time of the last interview.

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Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion!
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Interview Highlights

Dulio Arellano, was born in Mexico and immigrated to the United States at age 18 to join his father who had been working there since the 1970s. After working at various jobs when he first arrived, Dulio’s brother persuaded him to take a class on CNC machining at a community college. When he saw the machine make a part, Dulio knew he had found his passion.
Despite initial challenges in finding employment due to his lack of experience, Dulio persevered and gained worked at several shops and progressed from being an operator to a setup person, continually learning and setting new goals for himself. Then he met the president of Swiss machine manufacturer Tornos at IMTS. This connection led to a job offer at Tornos, where Dulio became the company’s ace technician for Deco Swiss-type lathes and MultiSwiss CNC multi-spindle machines.
In 2018 Dulio seized an opportunity to purchase a used Deco 10 lathe from one of his clients and started his own contract machining business Premier Swiss. Today the company has nine employees, a variety of Tornos Swiss machines and produces components for industries such as hydraulics, automotive, defense, aerospace, medical, and electronics.

Excerpt from Part I of the Interview:
Noah Graff: Do you feel a lot of operators are close minded about various brands and models of machines because they’re different from the ones they’ve been trained on? From my point of view as a machinery dealer it seems like driving a Honda vs. a Ford.
Dulio Arellano: That’s exactly right. There are still people who say that maybe Ford is better than Chevy. These cars will take you places, just like the machines. The machine doesn’t make the operator. The operator makes the machine make amazing things. They all have issues, limitations, and one thing that you’re not going to like about them.
Noah Graff: And most of them have something special about them, particularly Tornos.
Dulio Arellano: Yeah, they all have something that is going to make things better. It’s just a matter of what you think is better and what’s going to work for what you’re trying to do.
Noah Graff: Why do you prefer Tornos to other Swiss machines?
Dulio Arellano: For a lot of reasons, not only because I believe that they’re better machines. I think they’re great machines, and they offer a lot of good benefits. They’re made thinking of the operator, the final person who’s going to spend the most time in front of the machine.
In the Deco line, all your tools get preset outside the machine, making it easy right there because you are not getting your hands into the machine as much. You preset your tools, put them in, and there is no touch.
Noah Graff: And there’s so much room inside the machine.
Dulio Arellano: That, and the layout of the machine. For example, you’ve probably seen MultiSwiss (Tornos’s latest CNC multi-spindle). Do you see how the door opens? I mean, you can literally walk in the machine.
The Swiss Nano is another example. How much more accessibility do you want for a machine that small? The complete cabin opens.
 
Question: What would be your ideal job working in a machine shop?
Tune in for Part II in two weeks for Dulio’s philosophy when hiring inexperienced workers and why he likes to work on the shop floor.
 
The post 18-Year-Old Immigrant Becomes Machine Shop Founder, Dulio Arellano (Part I)—EP 218 first appeared on Today’s Machining World.

18-Year-Old Immigrant Becomes Machine Shop Founder, Dulio Arellano (Part I)—EP 218

This week on Swarfcast, we’re sharing an interview we originally did back in 2020 with Paul Van Metre, Co-Founder of ProShop ERP. 
During our discussion, Paul shares a lot of valuable and timeless information that can help your shop run more efficiently. Since we did the interview, he has also started his own podcast, called Machine Shop Mastery: https://machineshopmastery.com/about/. We invite you to give it a listen!
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On today’s show we’re talking about how to set up machine tools efficiently.
Our guest is Paul Van Metre, co-founder of ProShop ERP. ProShop produces a comprehensive web-based and totally paperless shop management system for small to medium manufacturing companies. Paul says that using a few best practices, guided by ProShop’s management system, can reduce a machine setup time up to 50%.
Scroll down to listen to the podcast. Or listen on your phone with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.
Main Points
Paul shares his background. He grew up in New York and studied mechanical engineering in college. He says he found it dry, so he began looking for something more hands on. He found a program in Washington State that was heavily involved in the Formula SAE competition, which he fell in love with. He and his teammates decided to start a machine shop together right out of college. (3:10)
Paul says that for their machine shop’s first three years (in late 1990s) the company used Excel to make its job routers and travelers. As it added more machines, it put a computer next to each one. (5:15)
Paul explains that the idea for his company’s proprietary shop management system came out of desperation and need. As the company grew, introducing more machines and employees, Excel was not keeping up. His team researched shop management software in the old school Thomas Register books. (6:25)
Paul says that none of ERP software firms his company looked at offered products designed specifically for managing the shop floor. The products also required paper printouts, which Paul and his team felt was a step backward from what they were already doing using Excel. Ultimately, they decided to hire a software designer to design a custom ERP system for the company. Paul says it took a little less than a year to develop workable software to handle the company’s needs. (7:35)
Paul says it took about eight years before the company’s ERP software received outside attention. During the economic slowdown in 2008, a production manager from his company’s biggest customer came to the shop to work one day a week. When he tried using the ProShop ERP he liked it so much that he told his own company about it. (10:50)
The customer convinced Paul’s company to let it use ProShop ERP. Paul says that within six months of using the system his customer’s productivity was boosted so much it was able to free up three full time employees, and it drastically decreased its lead-times on various jobs. Then the customer asked if Paul’s company would allow some of its vendors to use ProShop ERP. Paul and his team then realized the opportunity to start a new business selling their ERP, which they founded in 2016. (12:30)
Paul says he misses the joy of the production process of running a machine shop, but he says providing ProShop to help other companies succeed is what he enjoys the most. (15:45)
Paul says that by using a few best practices a shop can save up to 50% of machine setup time. (17:45)
Paul says proper setup process starts when a machine has already been torn down from its previous setup. The teardown should be part of the machine’s previous job’s processes. (18:46)
Paul says the first thing to think about when starting a machine setup is to have all of the materials ready for the job at the machine—tooling, instructions, and rich media such as videos and photos to guide the setup person. This is because if a setup person has to leave the machine to get something that she forgot she can run into a multitude of distractions in the shop which significantly delay getting back to work on a machine. 
Paul says one of the worst obstacles in slowing down setup time is when the shop doesn’t even have a necessary tools or materials on site. Then the setup process loses days while the company waits for materials to be shipped in. (23:00)
Paul says it’s very important for a setup person to have detailed work instructions for a job ready (SEE VIDEO BELOW). He says that ProShop ERP’s paperless system makes it easy for people to have all the important info about a job at the machine at all times (again, so they don’t have to get up and leave the machine). Having paperless instructions also makes it smooth to set up jobs that were already run on that machine in the past because the setup person doesn’t have to find an old printout. The instructions from the old job are ready on a computer next to the machine and may have important updates from the last time the job was run. Having organized instructions at a machine that are easily accessible enables a different person to set up a machine than the previous one. Paul says that ProShop ERP has plans to have software integrated right on machine tools in the future.(24:45)
Paul says ProShop ERP also helps with cutting time on the inspection step of a setup. It sets up processes for a setup person to do her own inspection on a part so the part looks good before it is sent to the Quality department. When the part goes to the Quality department there are notes for the quality technicians to pay attention to. (29:45)
Paul says another important part of every setup is continuous improvement on a part. One of the key features of ProShop ERP is that it allows machinists to document process improving ideas, flag their planning department, create action items, and assign tasks to save even more time. It’s all in one place so that communication is simplified and efficient. (31:40)
Paul says one of the most interesting things he learned last week was that 6% of the forests on the West Coast have burned this year within the last few weeks, which is nearly 20 times more acreage than last year. (34:05)
Paul says a key takeaway is that setup is very logical and doesn’t require specialized software if you have key systems in place. He believes that a little upfront work will have huge ROI on your time on the back end of the process. (35:15)
Question: What aspect of work do you wish you were more organized for?
For more information on ProShop ERP, visit: https://www.proshoperp.com/.The post How to Cut Machine Setup Time in Half, with Paul Van Metre – EP 97 first appeared on Today’s Machining World.

How to Cut Machine Setup Time in Half, with Paul Van Metre – EP 97

Do you ever wonder how I make a living buying and selling old iron?
Sometimes Graff-Pinkert’s used machinery business boggles our own minds too. But we have some tricks of the trade that make it possible for me to pay my mortgage, and on today’s podcast I’m going to share a few of them with you.
We’re running an episode from the Job Shop Show podcast, where I was interviewed last year.
Host, Jay Jacobs, and I talked about a lot of fun topics, such as what to watch for when you’re buying used machinery, negotiation tactics, and of course, how to create serendipity.
If you like this interview I recommend you check out the interview I did with Jay in episodes 196 and 197, as well as other episodes on the Job Shop Show.

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Link to Graff-Pinkert’s ad for Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion!
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Interview Highlights

Jay Jacobs: When I used to consider buying used equipment, I must admit I had a lot of fear. Fear of overpaying, fear of buying a lemon, or fear that the machine doesn’t work correctly and I have no one around to help me. As opposed to buying a new machine that’s under warranty. 
Noah Graff: First of all, we much prefer selling a used machine to somebody who already has that model or has something very similar. Because unless it’s a Wickman or Davenport, or maybe an ACME multi-spindle, Graff-Pinkert probably is not going to be able to support the machine. If there is something fundamentally wrong with a machine we sell, we will do what’s necessary to make the situation right, even if that means taking a machine back.
As for used machines not working properly, my advice to people is always go and inspect. Spend the $2,000 to go see the machine or hire somebody to inspect the machine for you. 
If it’s an older machine, I suggest that you already own that type of machine or that you have someone really experienced to maintain it and operate it.
Also, it’s important to research which machines are going to have the best support from the OEM and which machines have spare parts most readily available. Some models and brands are going to be a lot better than others. Ask around before you spend a bunch of money on a used machine.
 
Jay: How do you know if you’ve overpaid for a machine? You buy something and the next day you see the same thing and it’s 75% of the price you paid and you feel like a schmuck.
Noah: Well, that’s partly just dealing with yourself. After you buy the machine, you just have to ask yourself, “How much money am I going to make with this machine over the next decade?” 
I beat myself up all the time after I finish deals, wondering if I could have paid a few thousand dollars less or made a few thousand dollars more. But that’s counterproductive. That’s just ego.
What you should be thinking about is if this is a good deal that will make you money longterm. 
 
Jay: How do I know that I got the right price? That I’m getting a fair price.
Noah: You and I have both read the negotiation book, Never Split the Difference. So I know we both hate the word “fair.” Everyone has a different opinion of what “fair” means.
But, as far as getting a “good price.” Do some research. Call a bunch of dealers and get quotes on similar machines and then compare them.
Also, always ask around about the people you’re buying the machines from if you’re not familiar with them.
We’ve been cheated out of a lot of money on past deals, and it likely would have been prevented if we had just asked some other dealers about the seller, or even just googled the seller. 
There was a deal in Japan a few years back in which we thought we were being clever by not telling other people about our great source of cheap machines. Then we lost a few hundred thousand dollars on machines that never came. When we finally asked some other dealers about the seller, a Taiwanese dealer called JS Precision, we found out that they were notorious and the owner had gone to jail.
Do research. It’s one of the most important parts of buying machinery, whether it’s new or used.
People often ask me, which brand of machine they should buy? And I say that most of them are pretty good. Some things are personal preference. This brand has one feature. This brand has another feature. 
But I usually advise people to find out which machines the most shops around them have. That’s important if you later need help or resources. Also, ask other shops which brands have the best service in your area. If you check those things, you’re probably going to be OK with your purchase, at least for a while.
Questions:  What’s one of the greatest deals you’ve ever made?
What’s one of the worst deals you’ve made?The post How to Buy and Sell Machines Like a Used Machinery Dealer–EP 217 first appeared on Today’s Machining World.

What Should I Charge for My Parts?, Jay Jacobs (Part II) EP-197

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