In this episode of Why Do I Do What I Do: Exploring the Enneagram, host Paul Basden interviews longtime friend and co–senior pastor Jim Johnson for an in-depth, engaging, and heartfelt look at the Enneagram Type 8 personality—the Challenger.

Jim shares his moving family story, including the life-altering accident that shaped his parents’ faith and filled his childhood with unconditional love. From leadership in the church to marriage and parenting, Jim offers real-life examples of how Type 8 traits show up in daily life.

Listeners will learn:

What drives an Enneagram 8

How Type 8s lead, love, work, and relate

Why Eights value independence, justice, and honesty

The common fears and anxieties of Type 8s

What healthy vs. unhealthy Type 8 behavior looks like

How the Eight’s passion for strength and protection can mirror the heart of Jesus

This conversation is rich with wisdom, humor, and practical takeaways for anyone who is a Type 8, loves a Type 8, or leads with a Type 8. If you're exploring personal growth, spiritual formation, or Enneagram wisdom, this episode will give you clarity, encouragement, and a deeper appreciation for the powerful, justice-oriented Enneagram Eight.