In this episode of The Product Experience, host Randy Silver sits down with product veteran John Cutler to explore why creating great products remains one of the hardest things organisations do. They dive into why so many companies adopt off‑the‑shelf models (“Spotify”, “SAFe”, etc) and still struggle, and how the secret often lies not in what you build but how you build it—specifically the game you design for how you work.

Chapters
00:00 — The stigma around “how you work”
00:54 — Introducing John Cutler (again)
01:25 — What John’s building at Dotwork
02:46 — From fun to formal: doing discovery at scale
04:04 — Why process became a bad word
05:10 — The “cavalier PM” mindset
06:28 — Empowered teams vs. harsh realities
08:00 — What great pockets of practice have in common
09:03 — Managing up vs. doing the right thing
10:24 — Playing the game vs. designing the game
11:20 — What makes a great internal game
12:33 — Defining success: thriving, surviving, progressing
13:46 — Environmental design: why leaders hesitate
15:10 — Making intentional design less intimidating
16:42 — Tools, rituals, and the power of checkpoints
18:23 — The behaviour design playbook
20:41 — Removing blockers: access, repetition, reflection
22:12 — Replayability and t

Our Hosts
Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath.

Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.