"I would put this in very plain English: The way to protect the vulnerable is to have fewer infections, not more infections." - Dr. Tom Frieden

Talk of achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is back in the news, despite the consensus among public health experts that this approach would cost hundreds of thousands of American lives. Former CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden talks about his recent op-ed against this approach and the "one-two punch" to get the pandemic under control. 

Then, evolutionary biologist Dr. Mark Pagel explains why some of the traits that make humans so successful as a species are getting in the way of an effective response to the pandemic,  especially when it comes to wearing a face mask. 

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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S1E48 / A False Promise: Herd Immunity and Herd Mentality / Mark Pagel & Tom Frieden

Eradicating Smallpox: The Heroes that Wiped out a 3,000-Year-Old Virus

One of humanity’s greatest triumphs is the eradication of smallpox. This new eight-episode docuseries, “Eradicating Smallpox,” explores this remarkable feat and uncovers striking parallels and contrasts to recent history in the shadows of the covid-19 pandemic.  

Host Céline Gounder brings decades of experience working on HIV in Brazil and South Africa, Ebola during the outbreak in New Guinea, and covid-19 in New York City at the height of the pandemic. She travels to India and Bangladesh to bring never-before-heard stories from the front lines of the battle to wipe smallpox off the face of the Earth.  

“Epidemic” launched in early 2020 and quickly became a key source of reporting on the rapidly unfolding coronavirus pandemic. The show premiered at No. 1 in health and fitness and No. 1 in medicine on the Apple Podcast charts.

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The series finale of “Epidemic: Eradicating Smallpox” is a visit to the home of Rahima Banu, the last person with a documented case of naturally occurring variola major smallpox. When the virus was declared eradicated, she became a symbol of one of the greatest victories in global public health. What happened to Rahima Banu afterward?

S2E8 / The Scars of Smallpox

What good is a vaccine when there is no rice? Episode 7 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores the barriers public health workers face in communities where people’s basic needs aren’t being met.

S2E7 / What Good Is a Vaccine When There Is No Rice?

Trust is hard to build and easy to break. In Episode 6 of the “Eradicating Smallpox” podcast, meet Chandrakant Pandav, a health worker who used laughter and song to try to rebuild trust with communities harmed by India’s sometimes violent and coercive family planning campaign.

S2E6 / Bodies Remember What Was Done to Them

Episode 5 of the “Eradicating Smallpox” podcast explores how a partnership between public health institutions and a huge, influential private company was key in the campaign to eliminate smallpox.

S2E5 / The Tata Way

Join an online conversation led by Céline Gounder, a physician-epidemiologist and the host Season 2 of the “Epidemic” podcast, at noon ET on Thursday Sept. 14 about what the success of smallpox eradication can teach us about the public health challenges of the future.

S1E48 / A False Promise: Herd Immunity and Herd Mentality / Mark Pagel & Tom Frieden

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