Episode 68 | David Kinnaman from Barna and Mark Sayers of Red Church to explore what some of the latest data and church trends might mean for the future of the church and pastoring. Barna in 2019 and 2021 did a significant research project called the Connected Generation where they interviewed 18-35 year olds on areas of church engagement, mental health, and global concerns. In this episode, they specifically explore the Canadian data and what it might reveal about the shifting trends in young christians and non christians. Something Mark emphasizes is that although many of the trends can seem discouraging, we have seen them coming; the pandemic just acted as a portal to jump us ahead faster. For example, many of the people who have left the church during the pandemic were already considering it anyways. So where does that leave us? Well, both David and Mark have hope. What remains is a faithful remnant who have chosen to stay and who are hungrier than ever for the things of God. 
About | David Kinnaman is the author of the bestselling books Faith For Exiles, Good Faith, You Lost Me and unChristian. He is president of Barna Group, a leading research and communications company that works with churches, nonprofits, and businesses ranging from film studios to financial services. Since 1995, David has directed interviews with more than two million individuals and overseen thousands of U.S. and global research studies. He lives in California with his three children. Mark Sayers is the senior leader of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia. He is passionate about spiritual renewal and the future of the church. Mark is the author of a number of books including Strange Days and Reappearing Church.  Mark lives in Melbourne with his wife, Trudi, his daughter, Grace, and twin boys, Hudson and Billy. 
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 Connected Generation Report

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David Kinnaman & Mark Sayers: Where God Might Want To Take Us Next

Conversations that speak to the heart, soul and vision of the pastor, with ample time to hear the stories and processing of church leaders. Hosted most often by Jason Ballard, Pastor at The Way Church in Vancouver, BC.

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Mark Buchanan sits down with us again to explore everything from how storytelling forms us to our addiction to control.  He articulates how narratives help us navigate the truths of life and our identity, emphasizing the significance of weaving hope-filled, gospel-rooted stories into the fabric of our cultural imagination.
Throughout our conversation, Mark draws from the life of David to think about leaning on character over gifting and the temptation of success. Mark offers a candid look into what spiritual practices have deepened his love for Jesus, and what he has been learning about the importance of deep friendships in this season of his life.
This episode is an invitation to reevaluate our leadership in ministry, challenging us to lead in a manner that not only fosters integrity but cultivates a deeper love for Jesus.
Bio | Mark is an author, Associate Professor of Theology at Ambrose University in Calgary, Alberta, and former pastor. His books include “God Walk: Moving at the Speed of Your Soul” and the ever-popular “The Rest of God.” In 2021 Mark and his wife Cheryl started New Story Community, a ministry that seeks to walk alongside Indigenous Women who need space for healing. The program focuses on academic and biblical study, skill development, and personal goal-setting. The heart is to join God in His work of writing a story of hope, redemption and healing in the lives of His people.


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Show Notes:

 New Story Community

 Mark Buchanan Website

 Ambrose University

 The Rest of God by Mark Buchanan

 God Walk by Mark Buchanan

 Spiritual Rhythm by Mark Buchanan


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Mark Buchanan on Pastoring Others Without Losing Your Soul, Growing Deep Over Fast, and Telling Gospel-Shaped Stories

How do we contextualize our churches to the neighbourhoods God has called us to? And how do you keep your heart healthy when people leave your church? 
In today’s episode with Tammy Giffen, lead pastor of Groundswell Church in Truro, Nova Scotia, we explore these questions and more from her journey in ministry. Tammy became a Christian through Alpha as an adult and later moved into vocational ministry, eventually planting Groundswell in 2018. It’s a story of leading in ministry for the long haul, compelled by uncovering the beauty of Jesus for herself, and in the lives of the community she pastors.
Bio | Tammy Giffen is the lead pastor of Groundswell, a multi-site church in Central Nova Scotia. Groundswell is a church plant that launched in September of 2018 with a vision to be a church un-churched people love to attend. She came to know Jesus as an adult when she was invited to attend Alpha. Since then she has been passionate about breaking down barriers to church and helping people meet Jesus. Tammy is married to Peter and has three children; Taylor, Wesley, and Mya.


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Show Notes:

 ⁠⁠⁠⁠Groundswell Church
 One Conference


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Tammy Giffen on Neighbourhood Contextualization, Processing When People Leave, and What Helps Canada Feel Smaller

In this episode, Jason sits down with the pioneer of the Alpha Course and former Vicar of Holy Trinity Brompton in London, Nicky Gumbel. Nicky shares about his journey of transitioning leadership at HTB after nearly two decades in the senior role, emphasizing the importance of healthy succession and not taking changes made by new leaders personally. Their church, HTB, is helping to train pastors in England through a new initiative called the Caleb and Peter streams. Their vision is to see tens of thousands of pastors equipped, coming from less educated and affluent backgrounds, or who have retired from previous careers and are in the later seasons of life. Later in the conversation, Nicky shares a profound vision for the future of the Church: that the bible would be translated and the gospel shared to 99.6% of the world by the 17th of April, 2033. Nicky's joy for evangelism and seeing as many people as possible come to know and follow Jesus is a beautiful gift to the global church. We hope this conversation stirs your imagination for what God can do in your own context as you seek to spread the good news of Jesus with others. 
Bio | Nicky Gumbel is the former vicar of Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB) in London. Together with his wife Pippa, they pioneered Alpha, an introduction to the Christian faith run by all the major Christian denominations in 169 countries. Nicky has written several best-selling books including Questions of Life, The Jesus Lifestyle, Searching Issues and A Life Worth Living. He is the author of the free Bible reading app Bible in One Year. 


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Show Notes:

 The Leadership Conference is a unique opportunity for leaders to be equipped in their leadership through conversations, world-class content, and the power of the Holy Spirit. Register for LC24 on the 6th-7th May at the Royal Albert Hall in London here. 
 Holy Trinity Brompton
  Alpha 

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Nicky Gumbel On His Succession at HTB, a Vision to Train 10,000 Pastors, and the Significance of April 17, 2033

In this episode, Jason had a conversation with Jerry L. Sittser, a retired professor of theology from Whitworth University, renowned for his expertise in Christian spirituality and history. In this conversation, Jerry shares the relevance of early Christian practices in today's world and highlights the importance of the church embracing a new catechumen. He unpacks the challenges and opportunities for the church posed by a post-Christendom world, advocating for a deeper, more resilient approach to faith. Jerry also shares personal reflections on grief and loss not as something to avoid, but learning to carry it redemptively. His dedication to bridging academia and the church infuses our dialogue with hope and understanding, inviting us to explore what it means to follow Jesus in our time. 
Bio | Jerry has been a professor emeritus of theology and senior fellow at Whitworth University, specializing in the History of Christianity, Christian Spirituality, and Religion in American Public Life. He is now retired and spends much of his time with his 11 grandchildren. He has written nine books, among them are A Grace Disguised, The Will of God as a Way of Life, Water from a Deep Well, and his most recent book, Resilient Faith: How the Early Christian “Third Way” Changed the World. 


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Show Notes:

  ⁠⁠⁠A Grace Disguised Revised and Expanded: How the Soul Grows through Loss
  Resilient Faith: How the Early Christian "Third Way" Changed the World
  Water From a Deep Well: Christian Spirituality from Early Martyrs to Modern Missionaries

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Jerry L. Sittser On the Early Church “Third Way”, Re-introducing a Christian Imagination, and Navigating Grief through a Redemptive Lens

Change and the process of pruning are essential yet challenging aspects of personal growth and church life. Jonathan Smith understands this reality deeply, having navigated 30 years of church ministry and leadership. In this engaging conversation with Jason, Jonathan candidly shares his transformative journey, from the bold endeavor of planting a church at the young age of 23 to the nuanced task of guiding an established congregation toward embracing the next generation. Jonathan's entrepreneurial spirit, seasoned wisdom, and unwavering passion for the thriving of the church in Canada shine through as he reflects on his experiences. Through his insights, we invite you to glean from this conversation on how to navigate change well, foster healthy growth, and the importance of listening to those older and further along in the faith journey.
Bio | Jonathan has over 30 years of leadership and pastoral experience - leading churches in Halifax, Montreal and Toronto. He has been a church planter, Lead Pastor and thought leader in the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. Jonathan is married to Shelly and has three young children. His ministry has been marked by innovative strategies and an emphasis on team development and change management.
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Show Notes:

 ⁠⁠One Church

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Jonathan Smith On Nurturing Change in Churches with Compassion, Embracing the Vitality of Pruning for Church Growth, and Recognizing the Essential Role of Spiritual Mentors

David Kinnaman & Mark Sayers: Where God Might Want To Take Us Next

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