In this episode, I sit down with John Pabon, author of “The Great Greenwashing”, to expose the critical risks CEOs and leaders will find increasingly hard to avoid without facing them full on.

We break down why greenwashing and greenhushing are liabilities that invite regulatory scrutiny, erode trust, and cost companies market share. We examine the industries in the danger zone—from oil and gas to fast fashion—and why risk ignorance or willful ignorance, not risk avoidance, has become the biggest leadership blind spot.

You’ll come away with more of an understanding on some of the signals to watch out for, awareness of the systemic risks building under the surface, and practical ways to develop greater accountability for long-term growth.

Topics we cover include:

• Extinction and systemic risk: how species loss and ecosystem collapse tie directly to business and consumer decisions

• Greenwashing vs. greenhushing: why both exaggeration and silence erode credibility

• Healthy organizations: how sustainability connects to employee wellbeing, productivity, and resilience

• Global North vs. Global South: theory in boardrooms vs. survival on the ground

• Risk ignorance: the hidden danger of not seeing the systems you operate in

• The cost of silence: how greenhushing stalls momentum and cedes the narrative to bad actors

• Systemic change: why leaders must move beyond compliance and PR

• Pragmatic hope: stories of companies driving large-scale positive change

• Caroline Stokes’ own publishing case study: the overlooked carbon cost of print books

• The 2030 deadline: the narrow window to align organizational and planetary health.

We hope this episode will leave you with pragmatic optimism: proof that companies willing to lead honestly and decisively can reset systems, win trust, and secure long-term resilience. This is the candid, unfiltered conversation leaders need if they want to move beyond compliance, inspire their stakeholders, and act before 2030 closes the window for change.

This special series from the AfterShock podcast is in association with the Creating Healthy Organizations Conference hosted by Vanguard University’s Graduate Organizational Psychology program. We explore what it truly takes to build healthy organizations—ones that positively impact people, planet, and profit.

Listen now to hear why courageous, curious leadership is essential before 2030.

About John Pabon:

John Pabon is a sustainability expert who has worked with the United Nations, McKinsey, AC Nielsen, and as a consultant with BSR, the world’s largest sustainability-focused business network. He is the founder of Fulcrum Strategic Advisors, chair of The Conference Board’s Asia Sustainability Leaders Council, and advises the UN on issues of internet governance and greenwashing.

John is also the author of “Sustainability for the Rest of Us: Your No-Bullshit, Five-Point Plan for Saving the Planet” and “The Great Greenwashing: How Brands, Governments, and Influencers are Lying to You.”

Website: https://www.johnpabon.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/johnpabon