For this episode of The Appropriate Omnivore, Aaron Zober interviews Phoenix Be of Simply Grassfed. Phoenix discusses the prevalence of greenwashing in the natural products industry and explains why labels can often be misleading. He addresses a wide range of related issues, including loopholes in organic certification, challenges in meat and produce processing, and concerns about seafood and wild game sourcing. Despite these obstacles, both Phoenix and Aaron (who describe themselves as apocaloptimists) remain hopeful that these problems can be overcome, even those that many sustainable food advocates may not recognize. Phoenix also shares how he established processing standards for Simply Grassfed and how other farms have joined him in adopting these higher practices.