Notes and Links to Jeff Pearlman’s Work
Jeff Pearlman is the New York Times bestselling author of ten books. His subjects include the ’80s Los Angeles Lakers (Showtime), the 1986 New York Mets (The Bad Guys Won), the ’90s Dallas Cowboys (Boys Will Be Boys), and NFL legends Walter Payton (Sweetness) and Brett Favre (Gunslinger). HBO adapted Showtime into the dramatic series Winning Time, produced and directed by Adam McKay. A former Sports Illustrated senior writer and ESPN.com columnist, Pearlman is the host of the Two Writers Slinging Yang podcast and blogs regularly at jeffpearlman.com.
Buy Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur
Jeff's Website
NPR Coverage of Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur
At about 3:15, Jeff talks about writing against hagiography and how he doesn’t “bring bias” into his writing, whether about Tupac or sports
At about 5:25, Pete compliments the structure of the book, as it examines each of the places that shaped Tupac’s life
At about 5:55, Rapid-fire questions! *Best Tupac collab? Best movie role?
At about 8:45, A beautiful shout-out to friend Curtis Dorsey and Jeff’s dad, Stan
At about 10:20, Jeff shouts out some favorite lines from Tupac’s songs
At about 10:50, Pete and Jeff discuss Tupac’s “layering songs” and wondrous laugh
At about 12:55, Jeff responds to Pete’s question about Jeff’s “in”/entry point for writing about someone who has been written about so much
At about 15:45, Jeff expands on writing his biography of Tupac as a type of "layering" and the importance of specificity
At about 17:00, Jeff talks about how interviewing 652 people for his Tupac book is actually something that “[he] is supposed to do”
At about 19:55, Jeff reflects a bit on book promotion and book release
At about 21:25, Jeff shouts out Dusty Baker as “maybe the coolest human being who’s ever walked the planet”
At about 22:20, Pete asks Jeff about Set Shakur’s quote that Tupac died “alone”; Jeff reflects on the “isolation” of fame
At about 24:00, Jeff talks about Suge Knight and his indifference and his intriguing story
At about 25:45, Jeff talks about Tupac’s connection or lack thereof to the Mob Piru gang
At about 26:45, Pete gives an incomplete and rambling answer to the best Tupac song
At about 28:10, Davonn Hodge and his mother reuniting due to great work by Jeff Pearlman and Michelle Soulli is discussed, as Jeff gives the background on the reunification
At about 30:20, Jeff gives background on Afeni Shakur’s hometown, Lumberton, NC, and he gives a shoutout to Howard Bryant’s book on Ricky Henderson
At about 31:30, Jeff recounts a story about going to Lumberton to use the microfiche, but wound up seeing Tupac’s grave
At about 32:10, Jeff gives background on Afeni Shakur’s amazing life and highlights her accomplishments and travails
At about 33:30, Jeff and Pete discuss “Dear Mama” as aspirational and the sadness of Afeni’s substance abuse and how Tupac dealt with this horrible disappointment and “trauma”
At about 35:15, Jeff talks in awe of Afeni’s defending herself in the “Panther 21” trial
At about 36:20, Jeff discusses Tupac’s name origins
At about 37:45, Jeff responds to Pete’s question about Tupac’s dad Billy Garland and male role models
At about 39:40, The two discuss horrible athletic performances in movies and Tupac’s unfortunate basketball shooting motion
At about 41:00, Jeff gives some background on Tupac’s birth name
At about 41:40, Jeff talks about the impression that New York made on Tupac, musically and personally
At about 43:00, The two discuss Tupac’s time in Baltimore and at the Baltimore School for the Arts, and Tupac as an actor and singer; Jeff calls Baltimore his “favorite Tupac era”
At about 45:10, The two talk about Tupac’s Baltimore time and struggles and how “shapeshifter” didn’t quite fit him
At about 47:10, Jeff traces the Shakurs’ move to Marin City and connections to Geronimo Pratt and his family
At about 48:15, Jeff shares a profound statement from Set Shakur about moving vs. “relocating”
At about 48:50, Jeff talks about Marin City and recreating the Marin City of when Tupac lived there
At about 50:50, Jeff expands on similarities between Tupac’s time in the creative worlds of performing arts high schools in Baltimore and Marin City/ and his mother’s downward spiral
At about 51:55, The two discuss the significance of Marin City’s Festival on the Green 1992 and further reporting on the tragedy as a “turning point”
At about 55:50, Jeff responds to Pete’s observation about Tupac’s first albums not being highly-received and focuses on the changes that led to his second album being disappointing for Tupac
At about 57:20, Jeff traces an almost parallel life for Tupac as a revolutionary leader in Atlanta
At about 58:45, Jeff talks about the awkward time with Tupac working to become a community leader
At about 1:00:20, Jeff responds to Pete’s question about the reactions from people who were wowed by Tupac's raps in person
At about 1:03:00, Jeff shares what he learned in his interviews about Tupac the actor
At about 1:06:00, Jeff shares his thoughts on the alleged second sexual assault by Tupac
At about 1:08:15, Pete and Jeff discuss the “fan[ning] of the hip hop media/media and Tupac’s
At about 1:09:35, Pete compliments the skillful ways in which the last hours and days (the “banal”) were rendered in the way
At about 1:11:10, Pete asks Jeff about how much Death Row changed Tupac/brought out tendencies in him
At about 1:12:55, Jeff shares information from the book on two or three parallel universes where Tupac almost avoided being in Las Vegas
At about 1:13:55, Jeff reflects on Tupac as a 54 year old
You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.
Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Hannah Pittard, a recent guest, is up at Chicago Review.
Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl
Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!
This month’s Patreon bonus episode features an exploration of flawed characters, protagonists who are too real in their actions, and horror and noir as being where so much good and realistic writing takes place.
Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.
This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.
The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.
Please tune in for Episode 309 with Amber Sparks, the author of the short story collections And I Do Not Forgive You and The Unfinished World. Her writing has appeared in The Paris Review, Granta, Slate, and elsewhere. Her book Happy People Don’t Live Here was published in October 2025.
The episode drops on November 18.
Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.
View all episodes
By chillsatwillpodcast
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Notes and Links to Jeff Pearlman’s Work
Jeff Pearlman is the New York Times bestselling author of ten books. His subjects include the ’80s Los Angeles Lakers (Showtime), the 1986 New York Mets (The Bad Guys Won), the ’90s Dallas Cowboys (Boys Will Be Boys), and NFL legends Walter Payton (Sweetness) and Brett Favre (Gunslinger). HBO adapted Showtime into the dramatic series Winning Time, produced and directed by Adam McKay. A former Sports Illustrated senior writer and ESPN.com columnist, Pearlman is the host of the Two Writers Slinging Yang podcast and blogs regularly at jeffpearlman.com.
Buy Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur
Jeff's Website
NPR Coverage of Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur
At about 3:15, Jeff talks about writing against hagiography and how he doesn’t “bring bias” into his writing, whether about Tupac or sports
At about 5:25, Pete compliments the structure of the book, as it examines each of the places that shaped Tupac’s life
At about 5:55, Rapid-fire questions! *Best Tupac collab? Best movie role?
At about 8:45, A beautiful shout-out to friend Curtis Dorsey and Jeff’s dad, Stan
At about 10:20, Jeff shouts out some favorite lines from Tupac’s songs
At about 10:50, Pete and Jeff discuss Tupac’s “layering songs” and wondrous laugh
At about 12:55, Jeff responds to Pete’s question about Jeff’s “in”/entry point for writing about someone who has been written about so much
At about 15:45, Jeff expands on writing his biography of Tupac as a type of "layering" and the importance of specificity
At about 17:00, Jeff talks about how interviewing 652 people for his Tupac book is actually something that “[he] is supposed to do”
At about 19:55, Jeff reflects a bit on book promotion and book release
At about 21:25, Jeff shouts out Dusty Baker as “maybe the coolest human being who’s ever walked the planet”
At about 22:20, Pete asks Jeff about Set Shakur’s quote that Tupac died “alone”; Jeff reflects on the “isolation” of fame
At about 24:00, Jeff talks about Suge Knight and his indifference and his intriguing story
At about 25:45, Jeff talks about Tupac’s connection or lack thereof to the Mob Piru gang
At about 26:45, Pete gives an incomplete and rambling answer to the best Tupac song
At about 28:10, Davonn Hodge and his mother reuniting due to great work by Jeff Pearlman and Michelle Soulli is discussed, as Jeff gives the background on the reunification
At about 30:20, Jeff gives background on Afeni Shakur’s hometown, Lumberton, NC, and he gives a shoutout to Howard Bryant’s book on Ricky Henderson
At about 31:30, Jeff recounts a story about going to Lumberton to use the microfiche, but wound up seeing Tupac’s grave
At about 32:10, Jeff gives background on Afeni Shakur’s amazing life and highlights her accomplishments and travails
At about 33:30, Jeff and Pete discuss “Dear Mama” as aspirational and the sadness of Afeni’s substance abuse and how Tupac dealt with this horrible disappointment and “trauma”
At about 35:15, Jeff talks in awe of Afeni’s defending herself in the “Panther 21” trial
At about 36:20, Jeff discusses Tupac’s name origins
At about 37:45, Jeff responds to Pete’s question about Tupac’s dad Billy Garland and male role models
At about 39:40, The two discuss horrible athletic performances in movies and Tupac’s unfortunate basketball shooting motion
At about 41:00, Jeff gives some background on Tupac’s birth name
At about 41:40, Jeff talks about the impression that New York made on Tupac, musically and personally
At about 43:00, The two discuss Tupac’s time in Baltimore and at the Baltimore School for the Arts, and Tupac as an actor and singer; Jeff calls Baltimore his “favorite Tupac era”
At about 45:10, The two talk about Tupac’s Baltimore time and struggles and how “shapeshifter” didn’t quite fit him
At about 47:10, Jeff traces the Shakurs’ move to Marin City and connections to Geronimo Pratt and his family
At about 48:15, Jeff shares a profound statement from Set Shakur about moving vs. “relocating”
At about 48:50, Jeff talks about Marin City and recreating the Marin City of when Tupac lived there
At about 50:50, Jeff expands on similarities between Tupac’s time in the creative worlds of performing arts high schools in Baltimore and Marin City/ and his mother’s downward spiral
At about 51:55, The two discuss the significance of Marin City’s Festival on the Green 1992 and further reporting on the tragedy as a “turning point”
At about 55:50, Jeff responds to Pete’s observation about Tupac’s first albums not being highly-received and focuses on the changes that led to his second album being disappointing for Tupac
At about 57:20, Jeff traces an almost parallel life for Tupac as a revolutionary leader in Atlanta
At about 58:45, Jeff talks about the awkward time with Tupac working to become a community leader
At about 1:00:20, Jeff responds to Pete’s question about the reactions from people who were wowed by Tupac's raps in person
At about 1:03:00, Jeff shares what he learned in his interviews about Tupac the actor
At about 1:06:00, Jeff shares his thoughts on the alleged second sexual assault by Tupac
At about 1:08:15, Pete and Jeff discuss the “fan[ning] of the hip hop media/media and Tupac’s
At about 1:09:35, Pete compliments the skillful ways in which the last hours and days (the “banal”) were rendered in the way
At about 1:11:10, Pete asks Jeff about how much Death Row changed Tupac/brought out tendencies in him
At about 1:12:55, Jeff shares information from the book on two or three parallel universes where Tupac almost avoided being in Las Vegas
At about 1:13:55, Jeff reflects on Tupac as a 54 year old
You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.
Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Hannah Pittard, a recent guest, is up at Chicago Review.
Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl
Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!
This month’s Patreon bonus episode features an exploration of flawed characters, protagonists who are too real in their actions, and horror and noir as being where so much good and realistic writing takes place.
Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.
This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.
The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.
Please tune in for Episode 309 with Amber Sparks, the author of the short story collections And I Do Not Forgive You and The Unfinished World. Her writing has appeared in The Paris Review, Granta, Slate, and elsewhere. Her book Happy People Don’t Live Here was published in October 2025.
The episode drops on November 18.
Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.
16,488 Listeners