Former Springbok and Bulls head coach Heyneke Meyer joins Harry Jones for a deeply personal and thought-provoking conversation on Episode 87 of the Lekker Rugby Pod. From building the Bulls dynasty to shaping a World Cup-winning Springbok spine, Meyer opens up about the human side of coaching — where character, mental toughness, and humility matter far more than raw talent.

They explore the growing tension between data-driven coaching and traditional intuition, and why Meyer believes too many young coaches are becoming addicted to tech at the expense of real connection. He reflects on his player selection philosophy, the psychology behind building a team from the bottom, and how traits like resilience, work ethic, and selflessness often trump physical gifts.

Heyneke also shares why he believes coaches can learn from interrogation techniques (yes, really), how he helped transition players like Pieter-Steph du Toit into global stars, and why he never blames referees — no matter the result. It's a conversation that strips rugby back to its core: people, pressure, and purpose.If you're a coach, player, or fan who cares about what really makes a champion — this is a must-listen.