Welcome to a very special final episode of Season Four!

In this episode, you’ll learn how one foundation built the internal political will to make internal reforms so they can provide grants that better serve their grantees and their communities. Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Kenneth Jones, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Equity Officer of one of America’s major foundations, The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. They discuss why and how MacArthur Foundation has increased the amount of money in their grants for “indirect costs” from 15% to 29%, nearly double and one of the highest rates we know about.

This is the fourth installment of our special series, Smashing the Overhead Myth Once and for All! Be sure to check out the first installment (S4E3 with Rodney Christopher of BDO), which sets the context, provides the backstory, and defines terms for the entire series. You can binge the whole series in this Spotify playlist or find them spread across Season Four on the podcast page on our website. Go to the ⁠Show Notes Page⁠ on our website for a transcript of this episode, links to the resources discussed in the episode, guest bio, and more. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources on our website, ⁠fundthepeople.org⁠. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.

We’ll be taking a podcasting break during summer 2023. We will return this fall with Season Five. We’ll amplify more great guests, transformative ideas, and practical tips for investing in the nonprofit workforce.