Dr. Frans de Waal is a primatologist and the C. H. Candler Professor in the Psychology Department of Emory University and Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center. He has been elected to the (US) National Academy of Sciences, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the Royal Dutch Academy of Sciences. He’s the author of several bestsellers including Chimpanzee Politics, Good Natured, Our Inner Ape, The Age of Empathy, Mama’s Last Hug, and most recently, Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist.

In this episode, we talk about Dr. de Waal’s most recent book, Different, comparing and contrasting sex and gender differences amongst humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos. Chimpanzees are patriarchal, competitive, and aggressive; while bonobos are matriarchal, peaceful, and highly sexual. Humans are somewhere in-between. We talk about how the field of primatology evolved over the decades, especially during the feminist revolution, and how old views of human and primate evolution focusing on male-dominance and violent competition, rather than egalitarian cooperation, have gone out of fashion. We talk about the role human moral values play in shaping the behavioral sciences, both for good and for bad. Lastly, we talk about how understanding which gender differences are natural and which are socially constructed allows us to reduce sexism and discrimination.