It’s our first real, live billionaire guest… Christian Angermayer, founder of ATAI Life Sciences, a startup that seeks to treat mental health disorders with psychedelics. But first, hear all about the four Polish grandpas who founded a quantum science startup because "retirement is boring”. We also called Miriam Partington, our Berlin correspondent, on a new movement coming out of Germany, called steward ownership, that promises startups an alternative to giving over equity and control of their company.