One of the most reliable laments about Indian defense policy is that the Government of India spends far too little on defense. Experts say this is a problem for at least two reasons. First, India lags behind many of its strategic competitors when it comes to spending—which only deepens the country’s asymmetry in capabilities. Second, without greater investment, India won’t be able to live up to its own rhetoric of becoming a leading, rather than a balancing, power on the world scene.

This week on the podcast, Milan talks all things defense policy with Sushant Singh. Sushant is the deputy editor of the Indian Express newspaper, where he writes about national security, international relations, the judiciary and investigative agencies. Before turning to journalism, Sushant served in the Indian Army for twenty years, including multiple stints in Jammu and Kashmir.

Milan and Sushant discuss the crippling costs of personnel and pensions, the classic “guns versus butter” debate, and the much-anticipated national security strategy.