Copywriter Chris Orzechowski is our guest for the 112th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We met Chris through our friend Kim Schwalm after they got in a bit of a fight over the best kind of clients. Needless to say, we're all friends now, but it was touch and go there for a little while : ). Rob and Kira sat down with Chris to talk about:

•  Chris’s path from school teacher and wrestling coach to copywriter

•  how he “embraced the suck” to make things work as a marketer

•  how his teaching and coaching skills make him a better copywriter

•  landing his first “real” clients—what worked and what didn’t work

•  the moment he knew things were going to work out

•  why you need to treat copywriting like a business and outwork everyone

•  the #1 thing copywriters need to do in order to truly succeed

•  how to find good retainer clients—exactly what to look for

•  how to manage the back and forth with a retainer client

•  what Chris charges for retainers and how it’s changed <-- this is good to know

•  why retainers are better than going from project to project

•  how he started (and why he ended) a fight with Kim Schwalm

•  his approach to writing emails <-- Kira calls this “sexy” advice

This is a good one. As always, to listen simply click the play button below or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. If you’d rather read, scroll down for a full transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

Zach Evenesh

Kim Schwalm

Brian Kurtz

theemailcopywriter.com

Kira’s website

Rob’s website

The Copywriter Club Facebook Group

Intro: Content (for now)

Outro: Gravity

Full Transcript:

Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground.

Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently.

Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com.

Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 112 as we chat with launch specialist and email copywriter, Chris Orzechowski about what it takes to land a retainer client, his closely held secrets for writing email that customers want to read, the lessons he's learned from creating high performing funnels and how copywriting is a bit like high school wrestling.

Kira:   Hey Chris, welcome.

Chris: Hey Kira, Rob. Thanks so much for having me.

Kira:   We’re excited to have you here. So Chris, let's kick this off with your story. How did you get into copywriting?

Chris: So I got into copywriting a little over five years ago. I went to college to become a teacher because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was a wrestler, so I figured I guess I'll go teach or coach wrestling and that'll be my life. And then I got done with my first day of school, my first day of work and I went home and I said, man, I had made a huge mistake. I do not want to do this at all, let alone for the rest of my life. So I started looking around. I said, you know, there's always people who use the internet and they make money. And I was like, I wonder how that works. And I wonder if I could figure out how to do the same thing too. And one of my mentors, this strength coach, his name was Zack Evenesh, he was one of the early strength conditioning publishers back from like 2003 is when he first started online.

He was always like selling e-books and programs and doing all this online marketing stuff. I was always following along with what he did. And I was like, man, this is really cool, maybe I can do the same kind of thing. So I started going down that rabbit hole and studying everything. I started to see blogs and websites.