The Public Debt Clause of the 14th Amendment states: “The Validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law …. shall not be questioned.” Recent debates—including the most recent standoff between President Joe Biden and Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy over the debt ceiling—have raised the question as to whether this clause can be invoked to overcome the crisis. In today’s episode, we drill down on why the public debt clause was written, how it's been interpreted by the Supreme Court, and how things might play out today if it were used by President Biden. Guests Pulitzer-Prize winning historian Eric Foner, author of The Second Founding: How the Civil War and Reconstruction Remade the Constitution, and law professor Gerard Magliocca, author of American Founding Son: John Bingham and the Invention of the Fourteenth Amendment, discuss this often-overlooked section of the 14th Amendment written at the end of the Civil War.

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The Public Debt Clause and the Debt Ceiling

A weekly show of constitutional debate hosted by National Constitution Center President and CEO Jeffrey Rosen where listeners can hear the best arguments on all sides of the constitutional issues at the center of American life.

History

Society & Culture

News

News Commentary

Michael Gerhardt, author of the new book FDR’s Mentors: Navigating the Path to Greatness, and Andrew Busch, author of Reagan's Victory: The Presidential Election of 1980 and the Rise of the Right, join Jeffrey Rosen to explore the pivotal elections of 1932 and 1980. They compare the transformative presidencies of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan, and trace how founding-era debates between Hamilton and Jefferson over the scope of federal and executive power re-emerged during the New Deal and Reagan Revolution. This program originally streamed live on April 16, 2024. 
 
Resources: 

Michael J. Gerhardt, FDR’s Mentors: Navigating the Path to Greatness (2024) 

Andrew E. Busch, Ronald Reagan and the Politics of Freedom (2001) 

Andrew E. Busch, Reagan's Victory: The Presidential Election of 1980 and the Rise of the Right (2005) 

Andrew E. Busch, The Constitution on the Campaign Trail: The Surprising Political Career of America’s Founding Document (2007) 


Friedrich Hayek, “The Road to Serfdom,” Teaching American History (May 21, 2020) 

Ronald Reagan, Remarks to Commonwealth Club members on March 4, 1983, Reagan Library (July 19, 2018) 

Franklin D. Roosevelt, Undelivered Address Prepared for Jefferson Day, The American Presidency Project 

 

Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org.  
 Continue today’s conversation on Facebook and Twitter using @ConstitutionCtr.  
Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly. 
You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

America’s Most Consequential Elections: From FDR to Reagan

In this episode of We the People, Jeffrey Rosen has a special one-on-one conversation with the historian Allen Guelzo on his new book Our Ancient Faith: Lincoln, Democracy, and the American Experiment. They discuss Lincoln’s powerful vision of democracy, revisit his approach to tackling slavery and preserving the Union, and explain how Lincoln remains relevant as a political thinker today. 

Resources

Allen Guelzo, Our Ancient Faith: Lincoln, Democracy, and the American Experiment (2024)  

“Lincoln’s Speeches and the Refounding of America,” NCC America’s Town Hall program (Nov. 2021) 

William H. Herndon, Herndon on Lincoln: Letters (2016) 

Abraham Lincoln, “Speech to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield,” (1838)  

 

Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org.  
Continue today’s conversation on social media @ConstitutionCtr and #WeThePeoplePodcast.
Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly.  
You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

Lincoln, Democracy, and the American Experiment

On November 7, 2023, historians Carol Berkin, author of A Sovereign People: The Crises of the 1790s and the Birth of American Nationalism, and H.W. Brands, author of Founding Partisans: Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, and the Brawling Birth of American Politics, joined Jeffrey Rosen for a conversation on political partisanship and nationalism in early America, and how, despite the founders’ fear of factionalism, deep partisan divisions emerged almost immediately after the Revolution. They discuss the election of 1800, the first hotly contested partisan election in American history, and trace the history of American partisanship to the present day.  
 
Resources: 


H.W. Brands, Founding Partisans: Hamilton, Madison, Jefferson, Adams and the Brawling Birth of American Politics (2023) 


Carol Berkin, A Sovereign People: The Crises of the 1790s and the Birth of American Nationalism (2017) 

“Genet Affair,” Mount Vernon  


The Alien and Sedition Acts, NCC Founders’ Library 


Virginia Resolutions, NCC Founders’ Library 


Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org.
Continue today’s conversation on social media @ConstitutionCtr and #WeThePeoplePodcast.
Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly.
You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

Founding Partisans: Hamilton, Madison, Jefferson, Adams and the Brawling Birth of American Politics

On Thursday March 28 at the NCC, Jeffrey Rosen sat down with Justice Stephen Breyer to discuss his new book, Reading the Constitution: Why I Chose Pragmatism, Not Textualism. Justice Breyer deconstructs the textualist philosophy of the current Supreme Court’s majority and makes the case for a better way to interpret the Constitution based on pragmatism.
 
Resources
Justice Stephen Breyer, Reading the Constitution: Why I Chose Pragmatism, Not Textualism (2024) 
 
Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org.  
Continue today’s conversation on social media @ConstitutionCtr and #WeThePeoplePodcast.
Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly. 
You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

Justice Stephen Breyer on Reading the Constitution

On March 18, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Murthy v. Missouri and NRA v. Vullo—two cases in which government officials allegedly pressured private companies to target disfavored viewpoints. Alex Abdo of the Knight First Amendment Institute and David Greene of the Electronic Frontier Foundation join Jeffrey Rosen to break down both cases. Together they discuss the state action doctrine, explore the line between coercion and persuasion, and interrogate the tension between government speech and private speech. 
 
Resources: 


Murthy v. Missouri (oral argument via C-SPAN; transcript) 


NRA v. Vullo (oral argument via C-SPAN; transcript) 


Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan (1963) 

Alex Abdo, Brief in Support of Neither Party, Murthy v. Missouri 

David Greene, Brief in Support of Neither Party, Murthy v. Missouri 

David Greene and Karen Gullo, “Lawmakers: Ban TikTok to Stop Election Misinformation! Same Lawmakers: Restrict How Government Addresses Election Misinformation!,” EFF (March 15, 2024) 

 

Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org.  
Continue today’s conversation on Facebook and Twitter using @ConstitutionCtr. 
Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly.  
You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

The Public Debt Clause and the Debt Ceiling

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