VS

By Poetry Foundation

What's VS about?

The VS podcast is a bi-weekly series where poets confront the ideas that move them. Hosted by poets Ajanaé Dawkins and Brittany Rogers, produced by Cin Pim/Ombie Productions, and presented by the Poetry Foundation.

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VS episodes:

11.21.2023
2023 Statement from the VS team
A short statement from Brittany and Ajanaé regarding current events.
11.07.2023
Safiya Sinclair vs. The Sea
In today’s episode, Brittany and Ajanae have the pleasure of interviewing Safiya Sinclair. Join them as they discuss the craft of switching to memoir, maintaining self-confidence while navigating academia, what their teenage selves would think of them, and the influence...
10.24.2023
Courtney Faye Taylor vs. Black Girlhood
On today’s episode of VS, Brittany and Ajanae interview Courtney Faye Taylor about their award winning collection Concentrate. Listen in as they discuss writing with an ethic of care, studying oneself as a writer, the nuances of Black girlhood, and...
10.10.2023
Willie Lee Kinard III vs. The Choir
Today Brittany and Ajanae interview Willie Lee Kinard III, author of Orders of Service. During this episode, they discuss Willie’s history with music, doublespeak as maximalism, queerness as a foundation for craft choices, and developing a love for the land. Until...
09.26.2023
Samiya Bashir vs. Multiple Mediums
For this episode, Brittany and Ajanae interview Samiya Bashir. During this conversation, they discuss Samiya’s role as Executive Director of Lambda Literary, Black opera, opening the door for queer writers, and writing the poem that unlocks the project. Until Next Time: Here...
09.12.2023
Ariana Benson vs The Field
On today’s episode, Brittany and Ajanae speak with 2023 Ruth Lily fellow and author of Black Pastoral, Ariana Benson. Join them for this episode as they discuss nature, artistic influences, sensuality, and soap operas. Until Next Time: Here are some pieces of...
08.29.2023
Victoria Chang vs. Imagination
For their second episode of season 7, Brittany and Ajanae interview Victoria Chang. During this conversation, they discuss following your imagination and creative impulses, trusting your reader to fill in the gaps in a collection, and hidden talents! Until Next Time: Here...
08.15.2023
Brittany and Ajanae vs. The Audience
For this first episode of Season 7, Brittany and Ajanae decided to answer audience questions generated via social media. Join them as they tackle hot topics, their writing process, how they navigate friendship and business, and much more! Until Next Time: Here...
06.23.2023
Ladan Osman vs. Changing Your Life
Ladan Osman steps into the studio with a knowledge of her journey and a commitment to share. The poet and filmmaker talks about how she has traversed the complex and scarring world of the poetry industry, the ways that she...
05.23.2023
VS Live Aricka Foreman and Tommye Blount vs. Detroit Poetics
To close out season six, Brittany and Ajanae record LIVE in Detroit with guests Aricka Foreman and Tommye Blount. Join them as they discuss the history of the Detroit School of poets, building authentic community, knowing when a project is...
05.09.2023
Jacqui Germain vs. Specificity
Tune in this week as Brittany and Ajanaé interview Jacqui Germain about her debut collection, Bittering the Wound. In this episode, they discuss cartoons as a space of enjoyment, St. Louis as a persona, the intimacy of specificity, and the...
04.25.2023
Alexis Pauline Gumbs vs. Chasing Awe
On this week’s episode, Brittany and Ajanae sit down with Alexis Pauline Gumbs; during this interview, they discuss the gift of literary inheritance, unlearning the colonial lens, and allowing curiosity and awe to guide one’s research practice. Alexis also discusses...
04.11.2023
Jos Charles Vs. Younger Jos
On today’s episode, Brittany and Ajanae have the pleasure of interviewing Jos Charles. Over the course of this interview, they discuss finding beauty and healing and revisiting younger versions of ourselves, the ways that neurodivergence shapes our writing practice, and...
03.28.2023
Golden vs. The Self Portrait
In this episode, Ajanae and Brittany spend time in conversation with their guest, Golden; listen as they discuss creating a living archive, their space in the lineage of Black Formalist poets, and the ways that self-portraits have shaped their writing...
03.14.2023
Toi Derricotte vs. Stillness
This week, Ajanae and Brittany have the honor of interviewing Toi Derricotte. The trio speak candidly about preparing for death, the complexity of being a Black women poet, and the origin story of Cave Canem. They also explore the importance...
02.28.2023
Jericho Brown Vs. Process of Elimination
Brittany and Ajanae conclude their mini-tour of the South by interviewing Jericho Brown; in this conversation, the trio discuss breaking bad writing habits, navigating career longevity, and the things that bring them delight (spoiler alert: friendship, r&b and Beyoncé are...
02.14.2023
Mia S. Willis vs. The Black Proverb
On this weeks episode, Brittany and Ajanae continue their mini-tour of Atlanta with an interview with Mia. S. Willis. During this conversation, they discuss learning to slow down, avoiding the “full length” book pressure, and language as a material culture;...
01.31.2023
Maya Marshall vs. Priorities
Join us this week in Atlanta, where Brittany and Ajanae sit down with Maya Marshall to discuss Maya’s debut collection, All the Blood Involved in Love (Haymarket Press). This conversation centers around choice, obligation and priorities, both on and off the page....
01.17.2023
Naomi Shihab Nye vs. Secret Lives
This week, Brittany and Ajanae talk with guest Naomi Shihab Nye about the joy and wonder of youth, poets as vessels, editing as an act of devotion, and the complexity of becoming multiple selves over the course of a lifetime....
01.03.2023
Lupe Mendez vs. Reverence
On this week’s episode, Brittany and Ajanae continue their mini tour of the South in Houston, Texas. Next, they talk with Texas Poet Laureate Lupe Mendez about familial responsibility, masculinity, education, and the preservation of memory. Until Next Time: Here are some...
12.22.2022
Joy Priest vs. Absurdity
On this week’s episode, Brittany and Ajanae travel to Houston, Texas for the first interview of their (mini) South tour. There, they talk with Joy Priest about landscape, road trips, the process of creating, putting together a collection, and what...
12.22.2022
Joy Priest vs. Absurdity
12.06.2022
Wes Matthews vs. Wonder
In this episode, Wes reflects on his transition from being a youth to adulthood as it relates to the poetry scene, level of empathy, and approach to wonder.
11.22.2022
Kemi Alabi vs Divinity
In today’s episode, Kemi Alabi talks about poetic practice, pleasure, and play as it presents in their collection Against Heaven, winner of the Academy of American Poets First Book Award (Graywolf, 2022). In this conversation, they discuss the relationship between...
11.08.2022
Remica L Bingham-Risher vs, Memory
Remica Bingham-Risher’s reverence for love and relationship is tangible in her work. The author of Soul Culture, Starlight & Error, What We Ask of Flesh, and Conversion talks with Brittany and Ajanaé about the necessity of Black women curating the...
10.25.2022
Danez & Franny VS Getting Grown
Franny and Danez grace us with insight on being grown and dreaming toward the future. These former VS hosts talk with Brittany and Ajanaé about the way sobriety, domesticity, and clarity about their identities as writers is shaping their lives.
04.12.2022
Roll Call: Three Castles and the Music City
In October of 1871, the oldest University in Nashville TN, teetered on the brink of collapse. To survive, Fisk University staked its last $40 on a set of field hymns and 10 descendants of American slavery. The singing group carried...
03.29.2022
All The Apostles are Black, All the Saints Queer, and All of Them Are Brave (Pt.2)
All The Apostles are Black, All the Saints Queer, and All of Them Are Brave: towards a queer canon (Pt.2) Hello, hi Beloveds! Welcome back to the second installment of our Roll Call episode. We are your hosts, Kopano Maroga and...
03.15.2022
All The Apostles are Black, All the Saints Queer, and All of Them Are Brave (Pt. 1)
All The Apostles are Black, All the Saints Queer, and All of Them Are Brave: towards a queer canon (Pt.1) Hello, hi Beloveds! We are Kopano Maroga and Maneo Mohale and we have the absolute honour of hosting this 2 part...
03.01.2022
Roll Call: Gabrielle Civil vs. Black Time or the déjà vu
In this episode, black feminist poet and performance artist Gabrielle Civil grapples with the slippery, urgent nature of black time, what she calls the déjà vu. She talks to fellow poets Rashidah Ismaili and jayy dodd, scholar Michelle M. Wright,...
02.15.2022
Roll Call: Radical Literary Friendships
This episode is a roundtable discussion between Brittany, Maurisa, and Ajanae. We discuss the way that friendship has sustained us and been the catalyst for our growth as writers. We also highlight other literary friendships that inspire and guide our...
02.01.2022
Roll Call: Breaking the Line
When many people think of experimental Black poetry, they imagine Jazz, or spoken word, or vernacular––they “envision” sound. But what about poetry you can see? In this episode, Keith S. Wilson talks with poets Alison C. Rollins and Chaun Webster...
01.18.2022
What the Water Carries?
Show Description Can any label or identity explain our freedom, our community or history? How do you identify and what does it mean? In this special episode with Jasminne Mendez, Darrel Alejandro Holnes and Raina J. León explores the fluidity of...
01.18.2022
Roll Call: What the Water Carries?
Show Description Can any label or identity explain our freedom, our community or history? How do you identify and what does it mean? In this special episode with Jasminne Mendez, Darrel Alejandro Holnes and Raina J. León explores the fluidity of...
11.09.2021
Us vs. The Finale
Friends, we’ve reached the end–Franny, Danez, and producer Daniel say their goodbyes after five wonderful years as the crew of VS. The team reminisces on some of their favorite moments from the show, tells some behind the scenes gems, and...
10.26.2021
Rachel McKibbens vs. Endings
On our last guest interview (oh god!), the squad is joined by masterful poet and overall champion Rachel McKibbens. Recording from the spooky, amazing bar she runs in Rochester, Rachel breaks down her comfort with violence, the power of stopping...
10.15.2021
Sarah Kay vs. Sarah
We’re dancing in the reflection pool with the inimitable Sarah Kay. On this penultimate interview led by Franny and Danez, the magnificent poet and poetry community member talks about what happened when she turned internal in the pandemic, the relationship...
09.28.2021
Douglas Kearney vs. Protection
Douglas Kearney is developing some new armor for his people. The visionary poet breaks down how he is exploring the limits and possibilities of poems as protection, how he loves to share what he’s learned across generations, the power of...
09.14.2021
Cyrée Jarelle Johnson vs. Satisfaction
Cyrée Jarelle Johnson knows how to find satisfaction on the page. The brilliant poet breaks down where satisfaction lives in his poems, where the confessional meets the surreal, how sexy poetic form can be, and much more. NOTE: Make sure you...
08.31.2021
George Abraham vs. Returning
George Abraham is ready to return. The Palestinian-American poet and professor talks with Franny and Danez about the experience of revisiting their first book Birthright, carving a past and future for themselves in the face of colonialism and homophobia, learning...
08.17.2021
Evie Shockley vs Gathering
Evie Shockley is ready to bring us together. The poet, critic, and professor breaks down how she builds spaces to gather and exchange in her poems, the lineages she pulls from, balancing her critical and artistic lenses, and much more....
08.03.2021
Aria Aber vs. Ruins
Aria Aber knows how to find the space between the buildings, the beauty in the ruins. The poet talks with Franny and Danez about her masterful book Hard Damage, sharing the fragments of her past with her family, writing toward...
07.20.2021
francine j. harris vs. Being a Hater
The illustrious francine j. harris is in the proverbial building, and we couldn’t be more thrilled. The award-winning poet breaks down the transformative potential of being a hater, mourning the loss of anonymity at the open mic, championing the poets...
07.06.2021
Cynthia Dewi Oka vs. Spectacle
Cynthia Dewi Oka writes across generations, and what emerges is spectacular. The poet talks with Franny and Danez about flipping spectacle on its head as a way of subverting power, bringing both her mother and her son into the creative...
06.22.2021
Destiny O. Birdsong vs. Mess
Destiny O. Birdsong is happy to up to her elbows in the mess of life. The poet, essayist, and fiction writer talks about the joy of creating complex characters, writing auto-fiction, building books from a joke, and much more! NOTE: Make...
06.08.2021
Shira Erlichman vs. The Unknown
Come dance in the unknown with Shira Erlichman! Franny and Danez talk with the brilliant poet and musician about how she’s always thrived in the mystery, what she has learned about transformation from both her mental health journey and meditation...
05.25.2021
Carmen Giménez Smith vs. Amplification
Carmen Giménez Smith is ready to get down to the word. The poet and editor takes a deep dive with Franny and Danez into how she approaches editing, how she pushes writers to build off of the most effective parts...
05.11.2021
Tommy Pico vs Instinct
Tommy Pico might not like games, but he came to play. The poet, screenwriter, and podcaster talks about adjusting to life off of the road, stepping into a role in a TV writers room, beginning to write as a social...
04.27.2021
Taylor Johnson vs. Listening
Taylor Johnson is listening, and they’re inviting you to listen too. The poet, whose first collection Inheritance was released into the world last year on Alice James Books, talks with our fearless hosts about how they’re listening for the sounds,...
04.13.2021
Suzi F. Garcia vs. Oz
We’re off over the rainbow with the wonderful wizard of this pod, Suzi F. Garcia! The poet and editor takes Franny and Danez on a deep dive into the nuances and oddities of The Wizard of Oz, and it’s a...

What's VS about?

Download our free app to listen on your phone

VS episodes:

2023 Statement from the VS team

Safiya Sinclair vs. The Sea

Courtney Faye Taylor vs. Black Girlhood

Willie Lee Kinard III vs. The Choir

Samiya Bashir vs. Multiple Mediums

Ariana Benson vs The Field

Victoria Chang vs. Imagination

Brittany and Ajanae vs. The Audience

Ladan Osman vs. Changing Your Life

VS Live Aricka Foreman and Tommye Blount vs. Detroit Poetics

Jacqui Germain vs. Specificity

Alexis Pauline Gumbs vs. Chasing Awe

Jos Charles Vs. Younger Jos

Golden vs. The Self Portrait

Toi Derricotte vs. Stillness

Jericho Brown Vs. Process of Elimination

Mia S. Willis vs. The Black Proverb

Maya Marshall vs. Priorities

Naomi Shihab Nye vs. Secret Lives

Lupe Mendez vs. Reverence

Joy Priest vs. Absurdity

Joy Priest vs. Absurdity

Wes Matthews vs. Wonder

Kemi Alabi vs Divinity

Remica L Bingham-Risher vs, Memory

Danez & Franny VS Getting Grown

Roll Call: Three Castles and the Music City

All The Apostles are Black, All the Saints Queer, and All of Them Are Brave (Pt.2)

All The Apostles are Black, All the Saints Queer, and All of Them Are Brave (Pt. 1)

Roll Call: Gabrielle Civil vs. Black Time or the déjà vu

Roll Call: Radical Literary Friendships

Roll Call: Breaking the Line

What the Water Carries?

Roll Call: What the Water Carries?

Us vs. The Finale

Rachel McKibbens vs. Endings

Sarah Kay vs. Sarah

Douglas Kearney vs. Protection

Cyrée Jarelle Johnson vs. Satisfaction

George Abraham vs. Returning

Evie Shockley vs Gathering

Aria Aber vs. Ruins

francine j. harris vs. Being a Hater

Cynthia Dewi Oka vs. Spectacle

Destiny O. Birdsong vs. Mess

Shira Erlichman vs. The Unknown

Carmen Giménez Smith vs. Amplification

Tommy Pico vs Instinct

Taylor Johnson vs. Listening

Suzi F. Garcia vs. Oz