In this episode Bev Fitzsimons is joined by Howard Cohen and Sean Sweeney, neonatologists at the Randall Children's Hospital in Portland, Oregon. They share their experiences of life in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) and the 'emotional labour' of their work with families whose experiences are often highly traumatic. The Randall Hospital is part of the Vermont Oxford Network (VON) of neonatal units around the world. The Point of Care Foundation has worked with VON to introduce Experience Based Co-Design (EBCD) techniques, enabling clinicians to learn from families about improvements in their care. Howard Cohen, with clinicians and parents from the Portland Providence Hospital, are due to publish an article in the British Medical Journal about their experience of using EBCD and what they have learned.