Jeff Bickner and Sue Moon speak on the koan “Not Knowing is Most Intimate” based on a conversation of Dongshan (Daizeng) and his student Fayen. This Koan can be found as Case 171 in the Tanahashi/Loori translation “The True Dharma Eye – Zen Master Dogen’s three Hundred Koans.” It is also found in the Thomas Cleary version of the Book of Serenity Case 20.

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