Tom Berry and his partner, CJ Mena, join John and Mike to map out the commonalities between epilepsy and mental health. Tom talks about growing up with John Kelly and the day he learned of his passing in 2011. John and Mike use the last half of the episode to debate optimism vs. realism. Listen exclusively on our website. We're now available on Apple Podcasts, Google Play and Spotify.

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Guests: Tom Berry, CJ MenaHost: John TessitoreEditor: Mike EspositoProducers: John Tessitore, Mike EspositoMusicians: L.Farber, TaiCheeba, JaōPhotographer: Unknown