In this episode, Kathy continues her conversation with Erica Meier, Director of Compassion over Killing. They discuss:

-- COK's investigation of Cook Aquaculture, one of the world's largest factory farms for fish

-- what the public doesn't know about fish farming

-- Erica's response to the common criticism that cruelty investigators target "the bad apples" of animal agriculture

-- progress made in 2019: was it enough to label it "the year of the vegan?"

Key Takeaways:

-- fish farming causes just as much suffering as the farming of land animals--but on an even vaster scale

-- labeling horribly cruel practices as "standard" exempts them from cruelty statutes -- but it shouldn't

-- farm sanctuaries have a central role to play in changing the world for animals

-- 2019 seemed to be a tipping point: both Kathy and Erica expect stunning and rapid change for animals and the environment in 2020 and beyond.