There are facts all around us, all the time. Things that happened. Things that exist. Things that are missing.

And then there are the stories we tell about those facts, the way we connect different facts in order to tell a story.

And if you're very lucky, you can meet someone who is willing and able to discuss this phenomenon, in depth, in a fun and engaging way.

This was my fact: I got to speak with Steven Pacheco, of Trace Evidence. Here is yours: you can listen to him, off-script, and hear that he's a thoughtful, great guy even when he's not playing one on his own show.

Promos from Murderish and Asian Madness. Sponsored, as always, by Bath By Bex (CBDkate for 15% off).