Spenser Villwock talks one-on-one with Robert Lerman, PhD Economics, an Institute Fellow in the Center on Labor, Human Services, and Population at the Urban Institute in Washington DC. Dr. Lerman is one of the leading experts on apprenticeship in America and throughout the world. They discuss the need and the pathway for a paradigm shift in our views and approach for vocational, apprenticeship, and post-secondary higher education. They look at models for apprenticeship in Switzerland, Australia, and the United Kingdom for lessons learned. This podcast also has a call to action on how business owners and key stakeholders can play a role in educating others in their communities about success through apprenticeship. #WeAreIEC