Should code design be something we should have in mind when starting, or should we allow it to emerge from a test-driven design process? How much mileage can we get by getting better the up front design process before we run into a Design Quality Paradox? Can coupling and cohesion guide us to how small we ought to break up a function? Are code comments important to design or something to be avoided? In this episode Allan and Dave react to a written debate between John Ousterhout and Uncle Bob Martin. You can read the debate at https://github.com/johnousterhout/aposd-vs-clean-code/blob/main/README.md