In this conversation, Ben speaks to Tim Chong, Co-founder and CEO at Yonder. Tim’s story bucks the trend, culturally and personally. Tim has a unique awareness of what he calls his ‘mental itches’ - inclinations that he treats as seeds - giving them the time and space to take root.

They discuss why there is never a binary moment where people realise they’ve “made it,”. Why our best work doesn’t have to be limited to a small number of skilled professions. They discuss how boredom while volunteering and a “road to Damascus” moment shaped Tim’s view, and gave him the niggling feeling that led Tim to found Yonder.

Tim also discusses how he has previously defined his own best work extrinsically rather than intrinsically, and how a consciously-defined “Plan Z” allows him to view risk from a fresh perspective.