Darren Grimes of Reasoned talks to Labour activists and thinkers Paul Embery and Brendan Chilton about their chances of entering government in 2024 under Sir Keir Starmer QC's leadership, can they forgive him for his second referendum policy, what has gone wrong with the Labour Party and just how did it become so far removed from its one-time voters?

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Paul Embery

Firefighter and Blue Labour thinker

Paul on Twitter: http://twitter.com/PaulEmbery

Brendan Chilton

Labour councillor and founder of Labour Leave

Paul on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BrendanChilton

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