Prisons are a central institution of modern society, yet their legitimacy is rarely questioned. Many people assume they prevent crime and justly punish wrongdoing. But what if these assumptions are mistaken?

Today’s guest, Tommie Shelby, is the Lee Simpkins Family Professor of Arts and Sciences and the Caldwell Titcomb Professor in the ⁠Department of African and African American Studies ⁠and the ⁠Department of Philosophy⁠ at Harvard University. He argues that prisons fail to deliver what we expect from them and challenges the very idea that they are justified.