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What if the next big innovation came from a box cutter? Erik sits down with Bruce Vojak—advisor, executive, and author—to explore the surprising, human-driven process of innovation inside mature industries and companies. They unpack the difference between optimization and renewal, the danger of solving the wrong problem, and why some of the most impactful innovators are names you’ll never know. This conversation is a masterclass in shifting paradigms, staying curious, and creating the conditions for real change.

👤 About the Guest

Bruce Vojak is an author, researcher, and executive with a lifelong focus on innovation in mature industries. Formerly with Motorola and the University of Illinois, Bruce has co-authored two books: Serial Innovators and No Excuses Innovation, both published by Stanford University Press. His work blends technical insight with human-centered research, emphasizing the role of individuals who drive breakthrough innovation quietly within established firms.

🧭 Conversation Highlights

• Defining "mature" industries using the S-curve and what it really means to renew them
• Why the most important innovations often begin with the question: “Are we solving the right problem?”
• Real-life examples of invisible innovation: from pre-peeled carrots to safer box cutters
• Innovation as a people problem, not just a process
• The role of “innovation exemplars” within organizations and why structure matters less than alignment
• Pitfalls: how well-intentioned quality control or sales policies can crush good ideas
• The AI moment: what’s hype, what’s real, and why Bruce isn’t panicking
• Submission to reality as the true marker of innovation-ready leadership

💡 Key Takeaways

• Mature ≠ Stagnant: Mature industries aren’t dead—they’re just ripe for a shift in the basis of competition.
• Define the Right Problem: Many breakthrough innovations come not from new tech, but from redefining what problem you’re solving.
• Innovation is Personal: It’s not always about a system or culture—it’s often about one persistent person who sees something others don’t.
• Organizations Must Balance: Great companies hold both optimization and renewal in tension—they don’t let one dominate.
• Real Data > Hype: Innovators and executives alike must “submit to reality”—let the data, not ego, drive decisions.

❓ Questions That Mattered

• What does maturity mean in the context of innovation—and how do you know when you’ve arrived there?
• What precedes a truly innovative idea?
• How can a company structure itself to actually foster innovation instead of pretending to?
• What gets in the way of great ideas in mature companies—and how do you protect against that?

🗣️ Notable Quotes

“Innovation at its best is changing the basis of competition. It’s renewal.” — Bruce Vojak

“The most innovative thing that occurs is often defining the right problem.” — Bruce Vojak

“When companies submit to reality—when data speaks—that’s when innovation becomes possible.” — Bruce Vojak

“It’s like musical chairs—where are you going to be when the music stops?” — Bruce Vojak

🔗 Links & Resources

• No Excuses Innovation by Bruce Vojak & Walter Herbst
• Serial Innovators by Bruce Vojak, Abbie Griffin & Ray Price
• Bruce's LinkedIn Profile