In this episode, Angus interviews Lloyd Pilchen, a partner at Olivarez Madruga Law Organization, who specializes in municipal land use, water, and environmental law. The conversation explores Lloyd's journey from land surveying to law, his writing for American Surveyor Magazine, and the importance of clear communication in the surveying profession. They discuss the complexities of property law, the significance of understanding land use, and the fascinating history of Seattle's terrain transformation. The episode also touches on the concept of 'zone of benefit' in property law and the whimsical nature of pictorial maps.