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Today's episode features a long time friend and successful producer named Jonathan Kalter, a man who has found his way into AA and therapy to deepen his understanding of himself and live a more joy centered life.  This conversation breaks down the good and the different of 12 step programs versus therapy and vice versa, and shines a light on how important it is to stay open to all the tools available to improve our mental health.  I am a firm believer that no single modality is a cure all, and that many things can be true at once.  It is my lived experience that the 12 steps AND therapy have a special and significant place in my wellness journey, and we hear an honest account from Jonathan about how these two modalities have helped shape and shift his life too.  

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