Cliff Schecter is a longtime Democratic strategist and ad guy, an author and journalist, and a commentator. He's also someone whose path likely never would've crossed with Joe's in the "before times," but in this weird and woolly world, they're not just would-be fellow warriors in the fight for democracy--they're friends. In this open and honest conversation, Cliff and Joe reflect on how they got here, mistakes they've made, and talk about the need for a global "course correction" in the fight against extremism in our politics and culture.