The second part of our conversation gets much more "Jes Grew" than the first. While we talk about the novel (including a recap of the Egyptian mythology), we delve deep into the Jes Grew vs. Atonist divide, and what our modern art could learn from dropping a "good vs. bad" aesthetic to focus more on whether or not the work of art feels alive or inert. We also talk about whether or not Warren J. Harding was our first black president.