Every generation thinks the one behind it doesn’t want to work. But what if the real issue isn’t work ethic at all?

In this episode, leadership researcher, author, and founder of Boss Hero School Joe Mull examines what truly fuels commitment in the workplace—and why turnover, call-offs, and disengagement are almost always symptoms of broken systems, not broken people.

Listen in as Joe shares the research behind his “Employalty” framework, the three conditions that must exist for commitment to thrive, and what leaders need to stop doing if they want people to stay, grow, and give their best.

In this conversation, Joe breaks down:

• Why “no one wants to work” is one of the most persistent workplace myths in history.
• The sociological pattern behind generational blame.
• The three conditions where commitment naturally forms.
• How attendance and call-off problems are driven by belief systems (not laziness).
• The difference between accountability and punishment in behavior change.
• Why collaboration builds stronger policies than top-down mandates.
• The two questions that transform organizations into destination workplaces.
• How language frameworks unlock better retention conversations.

Ideas Worth Sharing:

• “People do a great job when they believe they have a great job.” - Joe Mull
• “Commitment appears when employees are in their ideal job doing meaningful work for a great boss.” - Joe Mull
• “If working for you negatively impacts what's most important to them, you've got no shot at retaining that employee.” - Joe Mull

Resources mentioned:

• Boss Hero School
• Boss Better Now Podcast
• Employalty: How to Ignite Commitment and Keep Top Talent in the New Age of Work by Joe Mull
• Other books by Joe: Cure for the Common Leader | No More Team Drama

About the Guest

Joe Mull is a leadership researcher, speaker, and author focused on building healthier, more committed workplaces. He is the founder of Boss Hero School, creator of the Employalty framework, and host of the Boss Better Now podcast. His work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and Harvard Business Review. In 2025, he was inducted into the Professional Speakers Hall of Fame—an honor reserved for less than 1% of speakers worldwide.

Connect with Joe: Website | LinkedIn

Connect with Holli: Website | Linkedin

If today’s conversation sparked ideas for how to fix your own people systems, don’t stop here. Follow The People Contingency wherever you listen. And if you know a leader who’s tired of burnout and turnover, share this episode with them. The more of us building retention-first systems, the stronger our field becomes.

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