We knew Connie Vogelmann, designer of Apiary, was holding something back the last time we talked to her. So we brought her and Elizabeth Hargrave back to interrogate them about Wyrmspan, the new dragon-themed sequel to Elizabeth's now-classic and award-winning Wingspan!

What was it like designing a new game under the Wingspan name? How much did Connie and Elizabeth work together? And what counts as a dragon anyway?

Plus, the two have been busy on the convention circuit, so we discuss various board gaming shows and which ones we enjoy the most.

Timeline:

• 4:19 - Going Analog's game pick: Wroth.
• 9:11 - Connie and Elizabeth's game pick: Knarr.
• 16:10 - Going Analog's topic: Wyrmspan's development.
• 33:35 - Elizabeth and Connie's topic: Our favorite gaming events each year.