This week Oliver interviews Josh Whale, the founder/CEO of Ampersand, based in Rwanda. This is a story that we've wanted to bring our listeners for more than two years - ever since we first heard that there was a team trying to build their own full stack motorbike and battery swapping hardware and software in one of the world's most underserved mobility markets. We're excited that it shows the adoption of micromobility in markets purely on the basis of its economic merits, and helps develop low-carbon pathways to mobility market growth.

Specifically they talk about:

- How Josh, a New Zealander, ended up in Rwanda building electric motorbikes.

- What is Ampersand and how their growth has tracked so far.

- Why micromobility matters for countries like Rwanda.

- How they source vehicles, why they chose to go to route of building their own and what has worked/not worked.

- Over time, might they build a Gojek style application for Ampersand

- How have they managed to fund the operation to date and what have they learnt in that process

- what are the unit economics like in Rwanda for motorbike taxi operators, and how Ampersand improves this

- What the scene for local indigenous vehicle production is like in Rwanda and surrounding countries

- What Josh would like people to know about the micromobility scene in Rwanda