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14: Build an Esport Empire with Ben Feferman
https://youtu.be/jOLoUHktsaI
Ben Feferman, the CEO and co-founder of Amuka eSports which is Canada’s leader in esports venues, leagues and tournaments. His firm also raises capital for fast growing esports businesses, and Ben is the co-founder of Canada's first and only incubator for esports-related companies.
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Build an Esport Empire with Ben Feferman
Our guest is Ben Feferman, who is a serial entrepreneur from Ontario, Canada. Hi, Ben. Let me introduce you, Ben. He is the CEO of Amuka Esports, which is Canada's leader in esports venues, leagues, and tournaments. He is also the managing partner of Amuka Capital, which raises capital for real estate technology and particularly esports companies. He is also the co-founder of an incubator called Level6 Esport Incubator, which is the one, the first and only incubator for eSport related companies in Canada. He also is the founder of Twitch channel, with people playing games, which I particularly like, because it reminds me of myself, not as a gamer, but maybe the age group. And he holds a BA in law and an MBA in real estate leadership. So very interesting background. He also has a security license in Canada. So excited to have you, Ben.
Yeah, thanks a lot. It's a pleasure to be here.
Great to have you. So this is a really interesting bio. Probably you are the best so far in terms of the variability and excitement of your bio. So tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you get here? Real estate, eSports, NBA, and all these different companies that you're running?
I've always been interested in finance and money since my bar mitzvah. I was trading my bar mitzvah money when online brokerages started to come up in, I don't know, 20 plus years ago. So I've always loved it. I never went to business school originally, so really self-taught. I went into film because I was just passionate about it, produced a couple of documentaries, and then decided, yeah, I really wanted to go into finance. So I got registered as a securities dealer, worked for a couple of shops.
And then really the entrepreneur in me said, I want to open up my own investment bank. So I did that a couple of years ago called the Mooka Capital. We started to raise money for some real estate projects, tech deals, and then eventually e-sports companies were coming to us and this was kind of like in the middle of a cannabis boom and really just, I love the industry, I love the space and just thought, hey, you know what, there's an opportunity to really build something from the ground up instead of raising money for other companies.
And so kind of put the bank on hold, it's still active, but, and really went all in on Amuka eSports, which is, you know, we raised a little bit of money and acquired Esports assets that are really synergistic and connected at a local level.
That's really exciting. I didn't realize that we actually have very similar backgrounds. I also am a former investment banker. I had a M&A firm that I built from the ground up, and then I went into a different direction, much like you. So that's really interesting to hear. But let's go back to this eSport thing. I mean, I have to tell you, I'm a little bit, I feel a little bit bad about this because I felt kind of weird about this whole eSport idea until I started watching a couple of your videos and hearing a little more about it. So please tell us a little bit about this whole idea that how can computer games be sport? And why do we call it a sport? And how is it different from other sports?
So at the most basic level, eSports is playing video games competitively. It could be, you know, playing for 10 bucks or bragging rights with a few of your friends in a beer league, or it could be playing for $40 million of prize pool in a similar stadium that you have in your background like that. So that's where eSports, I mean, look, anything and everything can be competitive. Food is competitive.
There's a competitive food eating scene. So, you know, I know a lot of people are kind of hung up on how can video games be a sport or competitive? And like, my answer is, what isn't competitive these days? So, the other thing that comes up is streaming and content creation. People do watch other people play video games, which people think is kind of weird. And to that, if you really just think objectively, is it really that weird? What else do people watch on YouTube? My kids watch Marble Runs and all sorts of like weird stuff.
So I think it's like, you know, if you love the game, you watch it. Like, you know, football is a great example. You ask people like, do you play football? No, no, no, no.I don't play football. But do you watch other people play football? Hell yeah. I watch it every Sunday. So like, why would eSports be different?
That's a good point. You know, when I think about back to my college years, when I, you know, we played video games every now and then, and it was kind of addictive. And I felt like, since I'm never gonna make it, it wasn't even a thing at the time, I just realized it was a waste of time for me because I could put my efforts to better use. But if I see that someone has just won $3 million, a 16-year-old kid in Fortnite, maybe that is worth putting some efforts into it.
Yeah, and even just, even forgetting that for a second, you can get a full scholarship, you know, competing in League of Legends or Rocket League. So the same way, you know, if you excelled in football or basketball or hockey, you could get a scholarship and go to college and get a great education. Same thing with eSports. Most universities now in Canada, so most colleges have an eSports program. Many universities have one. And in the US as well, we're seeing a lot of them where you can get a partial or full scholarship to play and compete.
That's amazing. So what really resonated with me when I was listening to another podcast that you did is this idea that some of the kids who are maybe not athletic, they find a good outlet for their talents. When I was in high school, I wasn't really good at basketball or soccer, but I was kind of intrigued by fencing, and I started fencing and and I kind of had this idea that you can be a sensor, even if you're not athletic in the usual way, and you can be successful there were some examples in front of me, who were kind of really weird So maybe this is a similar idea, that these kids find an outlet where they can be talented.
Yeah, 100%. I think when we look at kind of like the social activities in academic institutions, they're very focused on traditional sports, which are largely physical. And if you don't fit that mold and you're not good at sports, it's hard for your confidence. It's hard to fit in. It's hard to make friends. And there was a whole many generations that grew up not being able to find those communities.
And I think what eSports has done is it's empowered people that do love games to now say, "Hey, there's a community that I can fit in with and belong with and I can succeed and improve and get better." And the skills you learn playing a lot of these video games, especially the ones that are team based, are so important with, you know, all the other skills you're learning, critical thinking, strategy, problem solving, working as a team. Like these are critical skills that everyone needs to have and you are constantly building and developing them, you know, in your gameplay.
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That's really cool. You know, there's a lot of talk these days about gamifying in the workplace to make it more engaging and more interesting for people, especially younger generations who were brought up on maybe video games. So is there a way to kind of, are there games that help teams get better in teamwork and build better relationships? Is this even a thing?
I can tell you that there's games that don't do that. There's a popular game called Among Us, which we do play jokingly as a team, and the idea really is you got to kind of lie and cheat and deceive your way into victory. So we play that as a team. I think it's fun team building, even though the objective is the opposite. But listen, I think any time you're playing together and competing is good team building. So it doesn't have to be a game that is focused on that. I just think if you want to play Counter-Strike together as a team, then yeah, that's great. I think your team could bond over that. And there are games that are good for beginners to figure out, Among Us might be a good one.
So Ben, so switching gears here, so tell me a little bit about what does an eSports facilitation, you know, venues, business look like? What is the business model and what do you do when there's pandemic going on?
So we have more of an eSports arena. So people can come in during the day and play on our PCs and consoles. Why would someone come in here and play when they can play at home? Number one is you're playing on like a top of the end PC. So like our specs are top of the line, both computers, peripherals, monitors, everything. Also internet speed is very important. So we've got the fastest commercially available internet you can get right now. So if you don't have a good internet connection in your home, it really affects your online gameplay.
And the last reason people come in is like just privacy or playing with their friends, you know, like some people just can't have three or four guys in their, in their bedroom or basement playing Fortnite, so they come in and play. That's not even like the biggest part of the business. The real part is tournaments. So we, you know, pre-COVID, we were running, geez, four or five, sometimes even six tournaments a week. People pay an additional fee to enter, and that's our biggest source of revenue. So during COVID, we moved all those tournaments online and we continue to run them online.
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https://youtu.be/jOLoUHktsaI
Ben Feferman, the CEO and co-founder of Amuka eSports which is Canada’s leader in esports venues, leagues and tournaments. His firm also raises capital for fast growing esports businesses, and Ben is the co-founder of Canada's first and only incubator for esports-related companies.
---
Build an Esport Empire with Ben Feferman
Our guest is Ben Feferman, who is a serial entrepreneur from Ontario, Canada. Hi, Ben. Let me introduce you, Ben. He is the CEO of Amuka Esports, which is Canada's leader in esports venues, leagues, and tournaments. He is also the managing partner of Amuka Capital, which raises capital for real estate technology and particularly esports companies. He is also the co-founder of an incubator called Level6 Esport Incubator, which is the one, the first and only incubator for eSport related companies in Canada. He also is the founder of Twitch channel, with people playing games, which I particularly like, because it reminds me of myself, not as a gamer, but maybe the age group. And he holds a BA in law and an MBA in real estate leadership. So very interesting background. He also has a security license in Canada. So excited to have you, Ben.
Yeah, thanks a lot. It's a pleasure to be here.
Great to have you. So this is a really interesting bio. Probably you are the best so far in terms of the variability and excitement of your bio. So tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you get here? Real estate, eSports, NBA, and all these different companies that you're running?
I've always been interested in finance and money since my bar mitzvah. I was trading my bar mitzvah money when online brokerages started to come up in, I don't know, 20 plus years ago. So I've always loved it. I never went to business school originally, so really self-taught. I went into film because I was just passionate about it, produced a couple of documentaries, and then decided, yeah, I really wanted to go into finance. So I got registered as a securities dealer, worked for a couple of shops.
And then really the entrepreneur in me said, I want to open up my own investment bank. So I did that a couple of years ago called the Mooka Capital. We started to raise money for some real estate projects, tech deals, and then eventually e-sports companies were coming to us and this was kind of like in the middle of a cannabis boom and really just, I love the industry, I love the space and just thought, hey, you know what, there's an opportunity to really build something from the ground up instead of raising money for other companies.
And so kind of put the bank on hold, it's still active, but, and really went all in on Amuka eSports, which is, you know, we raised a little bit of money and acquired Esports assets that are really synergistic and connected at a local level.
That's really exciting. I didn't realize that we actually have very similar backgrounds. I also am a former investment banker. I had a M&A firm that I built from the ground up, and then I went into a different direction, much like you. So that's really interesting to hear. But let's go back to this eSport thing. I mean, I have to tell you, I'm a little bit, I feel a little bit bad about this because I felt kind of weird about this whole eSport idea until I started watching a couple of your videos and hearing a little more about it. So please tell us a little bit about this whole idea that how can computer games be sport? And why do we call it a sport? And how is it different from other sports?
So at the most basic level, eSports is playing video games competitively. It could be, you know, playing for 10 bucks or bragging rights with a few of your friends in a beer league, or it could be playing for $40 million of prize pool in a similar stadium that you have in your background like that. So that's where eSports, I mean, look, anything and everything can be competitive. Food is competitive.
There's a competitive food eating scene. So, you know, I know a lot of people are kind of hung up on how can video games be a sport or competitive? And like, my answer is, what isn't competitive these days? So, the other thing that comes up is streaming and content creation. People do watch other people play video games, which people think is kind of weird. And to that, if you really just think objectively, is it really that weird? What else do people watch on YouTube? My kids watch Marble Runs and all sorts of like weird stuff.
So I think it's like, you know, if you love the game, you watch it. Like, you know, football is a great example. You ask people like, do you play football? No, no, no, no.I don't play football. But do you watch other people play football? Hell yeah. I watch it every Sunday. So like, why would eSports be different?
That's a good point. You know, when I think about back to my college years, when I, you know, we played video games every now and then, and it was kind of addictive. And I felt like, since I'm never gonna make it, it wasn't even a thing at the time, I just realized it was a waste of time for me because I could put my efforts to better use. But if I see that someone has just won $3 million, a 16-year-old kid in Fortnite, maybe that is worth putting some efforts into it.
Yeah, and even just, even forgetting that for a second, you can get a full scholarship, you know, competing in League of Legends or Rocket League. So the same way, you know, if you excelled in football or basketball or hockey, you could get a scholarship and go to college and get a great education. Same thing with eSports. Most universities now in Canada, so most colleges have an eSports program. Many universities have one. And in the US as well, we're seeing a lot of them where you can get a partial or full scholarship to play and compete.
That's amazing. So what really resonated with me when I was listening to another podcast that you did is this idea that some of the kids who are maybe not athletic, they find a good outlet for their talents. When I was in high school, I wasn't really good at basketball or soccer, but I was kind of intrigued by fencing, and I started fencing and and I kind of had this idea that you can be a sensor, even if you're not athletic in the usual way, and you can be successful there were some examples in front of me, who were kind of really weird So maybe this is a similar idea, that these kids find an outlet where they can be talented.
Yeah, 100%. I think when we look at kind of like the social activities in academic institutions, they're very focused on traditional sports, which are largely physical. And if you don't fit that mold and you're not good at sports, it's hard for your confidence. It's hard to fit in. It's hard to make friends. And there was a whole many generations that grew up not being able to find those communities.
And I think what eSports has done is it's empowered people that do love games to now say, "Hey, there's a community that I can fit in with and belong with and I can succeed and improve and get better." And the skills you learn playing a lot of these video games, especially the ones that are team based, are so important with, you know, all the other skills you're learning, critical thinking, strategy, problem solving, working as a team. Like these are critical skills that everyone needs to have and you are constantly building and developing them, you know, in your gameplay.
14: Build an Esport Empire with Ben FefermanShare on X
That's really cool. You know, there's a lot of talk these days about gamifying in the workplace to make it more engaging and more interesting for people, especially younger generations who were brought up on maybe video games. So is there a way to kind of, are there games that help teams get better in teamwork and build better relationships? Is this even a thing?
I can tell you that there's games that don't do that. There's a popular game called Among Us, which we do play jokingly as a team, and the idea really is you got to kind of lie and cheat and deceive your way into victory. So we play that as a team. I think it's fun team building, even though the objective is the opposite. But listen, I think any time you're playing together and competing is good team building. So it doesn't have to be a game that is focused on that. I just think if you want to play Counter-Strike together as a team, then yeah, that's great. I think your team could bond over that. And there are games that are good for beginners to figure out, Among Us might be a good one.
So Ben, so switching gears here, so tell me a little bit about what does an eSports facilitation, you know, venues, business look like? What is the business model and what do you do when there's pandemic going on?
So we have more of an eSports arena. So people can come in during the day and play on our PCs and consoles. Why would someone come in here and play when they can play at home? Number one is you're playing on like a top of the end PC. So like our specs are top of the line, both computers, peripherals, monitors, everything. Also internet speed is very important. So we've got the fastest commercially available internet you can get right now. So if you don't have a good internet connection in your home, it really affects your online gameplay.
And the last reason people come in is like just privacy or playing with their friends, you know, like some people just can't have three or four guys in their, in their bedroom or basement playing Fortnite, so they come in and play. That's not even like the biggest part of the business. The real part is tournaments. So we, you know, pre-COVID, we were running, geez, four or five, sometimes even six tournaments a week. People pay an additional fee to enter, and that's our biggest source of revenue. So during COVID, we moved all those tournaments online and we continue to run them online.