Shain and Sarah start with a conversation about discernment counseling, which is a style of counseling used when couples can’t decide whether to stay married or separate. But as usual, the clinical conversation turns personal.

Shain reflects on her own marriage, the fights, the “f* you” that didn’t end it, and the decades it took to reclaim her voice. Sarah shares how a childhood of people coming and going shaped her attachment style and why abandonment doesn’t always look the way you think it does.

It’s an honest, funny, sometimes raw conversation about staying, leaving, invisibility, resilience, and the long road to feeling seen.

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