Show Notes: On the 140th episode of The Elephant in the Room podcast my guest was Sangeeta Waldron an industry veteran with over 3 decades of experience. Sangeeta's story is shaped by both personal and professional transitions, including navigating a recession and shifting her aspirations from advertising to government communications. Her bold decision to leave the security of a civil service role for a not-for-profit organisation working with the developing South marks a pivotal moment in her career, reflecting her commitment to meaningful work aligned with her heritage and values.

In the episode our conversation delves into how these early experiences shaped Sangeeta’s perspective on identity, inclusion and sustainability communications 👇🏾👇🏾👇🏾

-      Her resilience in overcoming challenges as a British Indian woman in a predominantly white industry

-      The current state of inclusivity within the public relations highlighting the persistent underrepresentation of diverse voices

-      'What Will Your Legacy Be?' Sangeeta’s latest book where she explores climate change and the role of businesses in fostering sustainable practices

-      The importance of representation in storytelling and the necessity for brands to engage with broader demographics to effectively communicate in today's global society

-      Our collective responsibility towards creating a more equitable and compassionate world, urging listeners to contemplate their own legacy and contributions to societal progress

The discussion links her individual journey to the broader context of responsible communications, emphasising how personal identity and lived experience can drive impactful change in sustainability narratives and foster greater inclusion in the workplace.

 Head to the podcast to listen to the episode (link in comments) 👇🏾👇🏾👇🏾

Episode Transcript:

Sudha: Good Morning Sangeeta. Wonderful to have you as a guest on The Elephant in the Room podcast today.

Sangeeta: Thank you for inviting me. I'm really excited about our conversation this morning.

Sudha: So let's get started with a quick introduction

Sangeeta: So it's a quick one. I mean, I've been over 30 years in this industry. In a strange way, I was born here, but I completed my degree in India, my college and university. So when I left India, I came as a postgraduate thinking I'm just going to, like most postgraduates or graduates, think they're just gonna be snapped up for a job.

I wasn't.

And the country at that time, the UK was going through a recession. And so it was very hard to find work. And I really wanted to be a copywriter in advertising when I was at university. That was my thing. That's what I really wanted to do. So I was trying to desperately get into advertising when I came back to the UK, but the recession had really affected. Well, we know that media and communications is always the first industry to suffer from recessions and knockbacks. So no one really wanted me. And I didn't have any office skills either.

So I sat the civil service entrance exam. And I got through. So I spent the first five years of my career writing speeches for a previous prime minister and ministers, but there is just so much creativity you can do with a minister and prime minister speech. And I thought this is really not what I want to do.

And I decided to resign and at that time, everyone was like, Are you crazy? It's a job for life. You've got a great pension. All those things, that Indian families are always very concerned about. And I said, no, this is not what I want to do and I resigned and I went to go and work for a very small, not for profit organisation working with the developing South, which kind of fitted all my background knowledge, my growing up and my experiences of living in India.

And I was there and that was really, I would say, while I had those first five years, in government, I would say my career really started when I went to work for this small not for profit. So this is becoming a very long elevator pitch. So just from there, I went to go work for some fantastic organisations.

I was the first global director of comms and marketing for the Economist Group, working at that time for the CEO, which was a huge privilege. She was the only woman in the square mile at that time. I went to work for the first mayor of London, Ken Livingston. So lots of firsts. And then in 2009, just before I set up my own PR agency, Serendipity PR and Media, I was working at a breast cancer charity.

And when I started there, it was just, a team of myself and two others, the time I left, we were an award-winning team of 10 and I was director of comms. And then 2009, I set up my own agency

And during that course of that time, we've also had the advent of social media. And so I've got more strings to my bow. And as you've read my second book very kindly, I'm a published author. So, that's me in a nutshell.

Sudha: That's such an amazing journey. So varied and the depth of experience and like you said, civil services. Do you regret it? Do you ever think that, oh, it might've been nice to still be working there?

Sangeeta: No.

Sudha: Short answer.

Sangeeta: So it's a good question. It's an interesting question. And I was speaking to a friend of mine over Christmas and we were talking about life.

When you get to a certain age, you look back on life and you think about, do you have any regrets? And no, I've got no regrets. Everything I've done has taken me to where I need to be and it's taken me to where I am today. So no, I'm pleased I left.

Sudha: I don't think everybody is able to do this with the conviction that you are able to speak about it.

Coming back to being a British Indian, what has your journey been like in the industry? How easy or difficult was it to assimilate? You have had so many firsts to your credit. On the face of it, it looks like it was all very smooth sailing and, very easy for you to progress, share with us the actual story.

Sangeeta: The question has made me think a lot and I have to acknowledge the people that gave me the opportunities. So when I applied for the job with the small not for profit after leaving the civil service, they gave me my opportunity.

At that time, it wasn't always easy. I still think it's not easy. Sometimes you're the only woman in the room. Sometimes you're the only British Indian woman in the room. And that, I'm talking about 30 years ago. And it's still like that now. So not a lot has changed, but I have to give a lot of credit to people who saw me, who saw my potential, who gave me the breaks, the opportunities.

And then I think a lot, like a lot of British Indians who are maybe first, second generation who've grown up in this country. My mother always used to tell me when I was little, when she used to get me ready for school here, she always used to say, you've always got to be better. You know, you've got to work harder because you're Indian, you've just got to work harder. And she always used to tell me, you're a girl, so you've got to work three times as hard and always have financial independence. So those were things that were always drilled into me and my mother was a working woman.

And so I would say it was also breaking a lot of stereotypes, how people see you, perceive you. I didn't fit into any boxes. So when I was working in some places, people naturally thought I was living at home with my parents. And I was living this... I don't know, whatever their stereotype was of a young British Indian woman.

And I remember going into work one day and I was a little bit late, and I said, oh, I had to ring my landlord because something wasn't working. And my boss said to me, landlord? He said, where are your parents? And I said, my parents? I said, my mom’s in India. He had to get his head round this whole story he had in his head on how he thought my life was.

It's breaking lots of stereotypes, and I think we're still breaking those stereotypes. And I think one thing I just want to say, I think people are discovering, and I think this is the joy and the positives of social media. People are also discovering that Indian women can be very funny, that we have a sense of humour.

Like the next person that's, all these stereotypes are all portrayed by the media or by film.

Sudha: Yeah, absolutely agree with you. But I also agree with what your mother drilled into you as a young child that you have to work harder. You have to be financially independent. I think that's some great advice. Actually, all women should be, everyone should be financially independent as far as possible. And of course when people are not able to put you into a box, it's very difficult for them to really decide on how they should behave with you.

It's easier to just slot people into different identities and stereotypes. From there we're moving on to this very important thing about identity, as somebody who's lived across two countries how important is your identity to you and how would you define it?

Sangeeta: That's another good question. I mean, my father was from India.

Sudha: Yeah.

Sangeeta: And when we went to India, it was our first time in India. And as a family, we only spoke English. So we didn't speak any of the Indian languages, no Hindi. My father was from the Punjab, no Punjabi. So when we went to India, I was about just 14 and a half.And so all our communication was through my dad and he was getting fed up because we couldn't communicate. So he just said he's not doing it anymore, which was like sink or swim. And I was too old to learn Hindi or Punjabi. So I did French.

Sudha: Yeah.

Sangeeta: And all my Hindi is the Hindi I've learned from TV, from films, because in India you have, well, servants is not a nice word, but you have home help.

Sudha: Yeah.

Sangeeta: So the home help that we had growing up, I learned from them, but I can't read or write. When we went to India my father wanted, I have a younger brother, wanted us to learn about our Indian roots. And in India, I wasn't accepted. I wasn't Indian enough.

So, I hated my nine years in India. And India was a very different place at that time, I was bullied, I was ostracized for the way I spoke Hindi, for all those stereotypes that Indians had of what an Indian young woman should be. And so after nine years, I said to my mom, look, I've done everything that's been expected of me and I'm now leaving.

And she didn't try and stop me. She understood, and in fact, when we went to India for the first time, when we arrived for the whole month, I refused to unpack my suitcase and my mum thought, Oh my God, if she doesn't unpack it today, then I'll have to bring her back. I'll bring her back because she's just not settling.

And that day, my mother thought that was the day I decided to unpack my suitcase. then when I came to the UK. I had this other story that everyone thought I was Indian, and I was just trying to find myself, I was in my 20s trying to find out who I am.

Yeah, so you're breaking those stereotypes here. And it was only recently somebody said to me, somebody I admire in the British Indian community. He rang me and we were just chit chatting and he said to me, you know, you're really respected in the Indian community. And that was like a, I don't know, it was like a big moment for me because I thought, wow, all this time I've always felt like I've been on the outskirts of everything.

And now suddenly people think, no, she's not a bad role model and she has a voice for the community. So my heritage is important, but I think it's who I am that defines me more than anything and I think that goes for everyone.

Sudha: Yeah. It must have been terribly difficult for you at 14 and a half to shift to a new country, when all you knew was, this way of living It must have been a huge culture shock. And of course, there is so much of resistance at that age. So, I have empathy for you. And of course when we talk about racism or stereotyping, it's not just that it happens here.

It happens everywhere. So it's about being conscious about how to accept people for who they are.

Sangeeta: One hundred percent. You're absolutely right.

And in India, sometimes I used to just stand there and not even open my mouth, but people know you're different. Just by the way you stand, you know, in this country, as a child, you are empowered to have a voice. In India, it's a different culture, it's a different setting. So yes, I was targeted a lot, never accepted. And then also not reading and writing Hindi was also a disadvantage. And my parents didn't set any boundaries. My mother didn't know India. She's Indian but wasn't from India.

And my father didn't sort of explain, this is what you do and this is what you don't do.

And I always, I was 15 and my parents put me in this co ed school. And what I didn't realize in India at that time was when the teacher said make groups. I would go and make groups at the boys and groups there is only boys together, girls together. At 15 you're discovering the other sex and, I was falling in love.

And I got into so much trouble at school. But no one explained to me that the culture is so different. My parents didn't sit me down. All my father said to me, the only advice he gave to me was don't smile at every boy

That's all he said to me. Don't smile at every boy because they all think they're Romeo. And that was the advice. And I had to navigate all of that on my own.

Sudha: That's a really tough thing for a young person to do. I'm sorry about that. But I will also just like to say that I grew up in India and different parts of India are very, very different.

So Northern India is definitely one of the places where all of this is so stark and so everyday kind of, it's not unusual to, have gone through that experience, but in other parts, I'd say in maybe some parts of Eastern India, if you were in Bengal or you were in Western India or in Southern India, your experiences would have probably been different, but you don't know, I mean, for a 14 and a half year old kid, 15 year old kid to be put in a situation like that, it's wrong and it's difficult. I mean, this is all hindsight.

I guess your parents didn't realize and I think our generation of parents didn't think too much about these things.

Sangeeta: They didn't think at all. I don't think they thought at all. But India is very different today, and I love going to India today. I have a different relationship now with the country.

Sudha: Yeah.

Sangeeta: And I always say when I meet incredible women like yourself. I always say, if I had met you when I was growing up in my twenties, I would have stayed. I would have felt there were other people like me, but I never met those women. And also in India at that time, there were very few careers you could have. You either were a teacher or a teacher.

Sudha: Well, again, this is what I'm saying is, depends on where you were and where you grew up. And I think you also grew up in a hill station or a smaller town, which can have its own challenges, not to justify any of the stuff that you had to go through.

Moving on to our industry in the UK as a senior practitioner, do you think the industry is inclusive? I just gave up my role as the chair of the PRCA equity and inclusion advisory council in Feb last year, I'd been there for three years, and I thought that I could better serve the industry from the outside rather than inside. What are your thoughts?

Sangeeta: I mean, I've been over 30 years in this industry and when I started out, there were very few women in senior positions and no women, I would say, no women of colour in senior positions. We've just entered 2025 and last year, the Chartered Institute of Public Relations published their census and it showed, I think it's something like 84 percent or 87 percent of people in the industry are white, 5 percent are Asian, Asian.

I don't know what that means because we're all just put together, whether that's Indian, Chinese So 5 percent Asian, 3 percent black. I think it's something like 4 percent of people are mixed heritage. That is still not enough for an industry. I don't believe it's representative of everyone. And that is a problem for brands.

That's a problem for communications because we're living in a global society.

Brands need to be able to talk to everyone. And if you've only got one demographic setting the campaign, setting the messaging, defining what a campaign is. You're not inclusive enough. And we've seen those kinds of mistakes being made by big brands, including luxury brands.

Sudha: I think that it persists because I started at the PRCA in my role in 2021.  And, I felt like moving the agenda it's like, trying to move a mountain especially when you look at the bigger agencies, I quit the industry in 2018. Because I struggled to really find my place, and after that I struggled to find anywhere to get to because people could not see where I would fit or whether I had the experience or the right experience. And I think that a big factor of that was to do with my age that I was in my mid-forties and also to do with the fact...