What do you say when someone you know loses a loved one or has been diagnosed with a life-threatening illness? You might want to say something other than “sorry for your loss,” but putting words to your feelings can be hard – REALLY hard.

Kim Hamer knows what it’s like to lose a loved one and now she helps others navigate this sensitive area. If you think this is going to be a heavy conversation, you might be surprised. Kim brings a certain amount of love and laughter to our dialogue as well as a ton of helpful advice. I appreciate the work she does and hope you walk away from this episode with at least one idea of what you want to do for that person in your life who might be suffering, now or in the future. This is one to share!

Here's a bit more about Kim:

On April 16, 2009, Kim Hamer watched her 44-yr-old husband take his last breath. During his illness and after his death, she was amazed by the helpful ways their coworkers, bosses, friends, and family supported them. Kim started calling their kind actions "acts of love."

After the death of her husband, Kim, an HR leader, noticed that managers received no guidance when navigating cancer or death on their teams. She saw how their lack of helpful tools and guidance was costly. It negatively affected employee engagement, increased turnover rates, and lowered productivity.

She set out to change that. Combining her personal experience with her professional knowledge and leadership skills, Kim launched 100 Acts of Love, a consultancy that provides tools to help leaders increase team productivity, trust, and engagement when cancer affects the whole team member.

She is the author of 100 Acts of Love: A Girlfriend's Guide to Loving Your Friend through Cancer or Loss, an easy-to-read book filled with 100 practical, quick, and effective ways to support an employee, friend, or co-worker. She's an HR consultant and sought-after public speaker who lives in Los Angeles, where she tries not to bother her relatively well-behaved college-aged children.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/100actsoflove/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimthamer

Website: https://www.100actsoflove.com/

Book: https://www.100actsoflove.com/shop

 

Transcript

Podcast Introduction

This is Love is Us: Exploring relationships and how we connect. I'm your host, Karin Calde. I'll talk with people about how we can strengthen our relationships, explore who we are in those relationships, and experience a greater sense of love and connection with those around us, including ourselves. I have a PhD in clinical Psychology, practiced at a psychologist resident, and after diving into my own healing work, I went back to school and became a coach, helping individuals and couples with their relationships and personal growth. If you want to experience more love in your life and contribute to healing the disconnect so prevalent in our world today, you're in the right place. Welcome to love is Us.

 

Episode Introduction

How do we stay in connection with people we care about when they're grieving or when they or someone they love has been told that they have a life-threatening disease like cancer? What can we say and do to comfort that friend or coworker in that situation? Grief can be really isolating, partly because we don't know how to handle it, but it's when we most need people to come together around us and support us.

Kim Hamer, my guest today, and her book 100 Acts of Love helps people bridge that gap, whether they're an individual or part of an organization. I bought a copy of her book when I decided to interview her, and I'm really glad I did. It's a book that you're going to want to have on hand when and I and I do mean when, you have someone in your life who is grieving. It's a beautiful book, which you can use like a reference guide, with a lot of the chapters applying to different kinds of circumstances. I don't get any kind of commission or kickback from recommending my guests books. I only do it if I've read it, and I've really liked it, and this really is a great one.

Can I have favorite episodes? I love all my episodes, and I love all my guests for different reasons. They've all offered so much value, and they do great work. There was just something special about this episode and this guest. I really connected with her, and even though we're talking about a really heavy topic, the conversation isn't heavy. It's pretty light and there's lots of laughter. I just left our conversation feeling energized and hoping I'd get the chance to talk with her again. She really is a bright light. So I got a lot out of this conversation, and I hope that you do, too.

 

Real quick before we begin, if you're in a committed relationship and you haven't yet downloaded my free guide, Seven Signs of a Healthy Relationship, you can do so by going to my website, drcaldy.com, and scrolling to the bottom of the page so it can help you identify ways to strengthen your connection with your partner. And I hope that you find it helpful. So, all right, here we go.

 

Episode:

Karin: Hi, Kim. Thanks for joining me today.

[03:07] Kim: Karin, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[03:09] Karin: Yeah, absolutely. So tell me where you're calling in from today.

[03:14] Kim: Los Angeles, California, where literally I can see the sun for the first time in about four weeks. It's been raining like crazy here.

[03:21] Karin: It has been such a weird year for California weather, isn't it?

[03:25] Kim: It really has been. Yeah.

[03:27] Karin: Oh, my gosh. Well, what keeps you in La. What do you like about La.

[03:32] Kim: I think there's two things. One, I'm African American, and I married a gentleman who was white. So we are not unusual. In fact, we're sort of more normal than we are in other places in the country. And I also love the fact that I can go hiking and I can drive for half an hour, be in the mountains, go hiking, feel like I'm out in the middle of nowhere, and then come home and eat Ethiopian food. I like having access to all those different things.

[03:59] Karin: You're already speaking my language. And I love Ethiopian food and wonderful. Yeah, no, that sounds like some good reasons to be there. So what kind of work do you do?

[04:16] Kim: I haven't figured out quite the term for it, but I guess you would call me a crisis coach to managers and CEOs executive levels. I help managers figure out what to do, what to say, and how to be empathetic as well as productive. When there is an employee death, employee dealing with loss, or an employee dealing with cancer or depression, it just seems.

[04:43] Karin: To me like such important work because it is a part of life, and yet it is in our culture, we never really learn how to deal with it.

[04:54] Kim: Yeah. It's kind of surprising to me that we are so ill equipped because we are as a general population, we are very ill equipped to help people through sometimes things that literally divide their lives in half.

[05:07] Karin: Yeah. I mean, I'll admit that I remember, gosh, this was maybe 30 years ago, almost, and I was working at Stanford in a lab, and one of the lab assistants, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I remember getting in the elevator with her and thinking, I don't know what to say. I don't know. And wishing I knew what to say.

[05:31] Kim: Yes. Somehow some bolt of lightning will come down and strike you, and then the right words will come out. Yeah.

[05:37] Karin: And I'll never forget it. That discomfort. But wanting to communicate my love to her in a way that would be appropriate and heard and appreciated. Yeah.

[05:48] Kim: And that's really what we all want to do. I think the added pressure on managers is because even though that employee has cancer and they care about them, they still need to meet their goals and their KPIs. So how do they show empathy and also still keep the team together and intact? Driving and drive forward and that's something that a lot. I think that's something that most managers struggle with.

[06:14] Karin: Yeah. And why do you think that they struggle with it so much?

[06:16] Kim: I think it's because we don't understand the role of empathy at work. I think what happens is managers think if I'm empathetic, I have to let them do anything and everything, and I can't ask them to do something. I can't require work be done on some level. I don't want to be seen. Can I swear? Yeah. I don't want to be seen as an asshole. Right. Most managers, nightmares, they want to be seen as good managers. And if I tell this person who just who was diagnosed with cancer three weeks ago that they still have work to do, then I'm the jerk, and I don't want to feel that way about myself. And I think that there's a huge gap between empathy and productivity that managers can work in that allows them to feel good about themselves, allows them to feel good about how they're supporting the employee, and allows them to feel good, how they're supporting the team, which is sort of the unnoticed the people who suffer ramifications when an employee is dealing with loss or cancer.

[07:25] Karin: Yeah. What are some things that a manager or team members can say, especially in the beginning when this is all new?

[07:34] Kim: Yeah. So my number one thing to say is actually my number one thing not to say. And I have a book, and it's got 100 different acts of love, and this is the only thing that has one chapter and one act of love in that chapter. And I literally say, if you take nothing else from this book, take this, and that is don't say, if you need anything, let me know. And I know the listeners right now are going, I say that all the time. Or some listeners are mad because they're like, well, why isn't that a good thing to say? So I'll tell you why it's not a good thing to say. The first thing is when someone shares really difficult news with you, they want to be witnessed. They don't want people jumping into action. They want someone to go, what? Like, oh, no, I cannot believe it. This hurts so much. And I often liken it to imagine going to lunch. Something fantastic has just happened for you. So you've gotten a promotion, new car, new house, new lover, whatever it is, and you're going to lunch with these six people, and you know that all of them know about it. And so you have this lunch, and you want to share, and nobody asks about it. Or when you share it, someone says, oh, that's a horrible place to go for honeymoon.

[08:51] Karin: Right.

[08:52] Kim: Something right. So you feel really almost bereft like, no one has honored this great thing. And so the same thing happens when something bad happens. Our lives, we need to be witnessed. We need someone to say, holy cow, I can't believe that's happening in your life. We don't need someone moving immediately into action. So that's number one. Number two. Karen. What's? Anything? That's just too big a word.

[09:21] Karin: Too broad, too much.

[09:23] Kim: Too much. I had a toddler. Does anything mean that you were going to take your brand new, just clean BMW, pick up my vomiting toddler from preschool, and drop them off? Or did anything mean you'd be happy to drop off a bottle of wine? Like anything is too big a word. The third reason it's not helpful is when now you've inadvertently put the pressure on the person who's already got a lot going on their lives to break apart their life and define one small thing that you might be able to do. And then the fourth reason that's not helpful is now you've asked them to ask for help. And I don't know about you, I'm much better at asking for help than I ever have been in my whole entire life. But that does not mean that I'm good at it.

[10:08] Karin: Yeah.

[10:09] Kim: And so asking someone who's under a lot of pressure to come up with something that they're not even sure you're willing to do, because we all know we have our limits, and then to come to you and ask you to do that one thing, like, hey, can you clean my toilets? Because they're really disgusting and I really need someone to clean it. That's way too much vulnerability. And so people don't respond to that.

[10:30] Karin: Yeah, it almost feels like it's a nice sentiment, but there's nothing really underneath it.

[10:39] Kim: Exactly. And that's how some people use it. So you never really know if you're the person who is in need of help. Some people really do use it as just, hey, if you need anything, let me know, because they know that's an acceptable thing to say. Other people really do mean it, but it's hard to discern which one is which. And so they're not going to ask. They're going to step back. Unless they're like, your bestest friend or they know that you love cleaning toilets. Then they'll say, hey, can you come over and clean toilets? So what I say on the other side is, there's two things. One, be specific on the kind of help you're willing to offer. And I know people say, but what can I do? I want everyone to think about something that they just like doing. Like there's things that we just like doing. Some people. I love a clean kitchen. I love a clean kitchen in the evening. Makes me so happy to go to bed knowing I've got a clean kitchen. You want me to come? I will offer to come clean your kitchen every night if that's what it takes. Or once a week. Right. Maybe you are like the excel queen and you just love spreadsheets and you know that this person that you're working with is okay with spreadsheets and will still have some work to do. You can offer that service. I am happy to review your spreadsheets or turn them into Pivot charts and do Vlookups. So whatever it is, there is something that you're really good at, and there's lots of things, actually, that you're really good at, and that's where you can start to offer help. And I know it seems really weird, but the book was donated. It was dedicated to a gentleman named Kinney at Venice Farmers Market here in La who offered to move something heavy when he first heard that my husband had cancer. And at first it was a weird offer, but I remembered it, and it stuck with me for four years. It stuck with me, actually forever. So the more specific you are, the better. You're doing the person a favor by being specific. And then the last thing I'll say is make sure you that offer more than once, because you're looking at someone who's not dealing with a full deck of cards.

[12:42] Karin: Yeah, and I want to come back to some of that, but because I want to back up a little bit. You mentioned this a little bit, but how did you come to do this work?

[12:51] Kim: Tell us a little bit about your.

[12:52] Karin: Story, if you're willing to go there.

[12:54] Kim: No, absolutely happy to go there. I'm not happy, but great. It's been 14 years since my husband died, and so there is a lot of gratitude here for I said it when he died, that his death and his allowing me to be there when he died, whatever that looked like for him, was his last, greatest gift to me. And I feel that is very true. And as I live longer and longer without him, I realize that it really was a gift. So my husband, Art Nagel was his name. He and I met in a cave, which is not really significant other than the fact that he was six foot six tall. And I'm not talking about the kind of cavernous caves in New Mexico where you can walk in there's 100ft. No, it was the kind of cave where you got in. We gave the kids coveralls, and you got in and you warmed your way through. He came into the cave twice, so clearly there was something a little bit here. He gave me his number at the end of the weekend. I called them, I called him, and we fell in love and got married. We zigzagged across the country, ended up in Los Angeles with three kids. And he was an athlete. He was a basketball player for a while, and then he got into cycling when I met him, and then he started getting into running. So one day he went out for a run, and he came back and he was sort of saying he was having trouble breathing. And prior to that, a week prior to that, we had gone on vacation and he was running these mild fevers and coughing. So we were giving him delson, cough syrup and ibuprofen. But we noticed the minute the ibuprofen well, it wore off at like 3 hours and 57 minutes, that fever would pop back up. It was kind of weird, but no red flags. He came back from this run not really being able to run very far. And I did what every good wife, what every good partner does, and I said, well here, take some of my as a medicine. Finally it got bad enough that he did go to the doctor. This is the end of the month. And it was like a movie. It was like a scene out of the movie. The doctor crossed, laced his fingers, laid them on the table and said, I have some bad news. I think it's cancer. It turned out that it was stage four large B cell lymphoma. And so it really was weeks away from trying to shut down his lungs. The reason he was having trouble breathing is because it had already metastasized in his body and was all over his lungs. So he managed to get himself disentangled from the cancer, which was amazing. And it was a really hard fight for myself and him and for our families. And then less than we're trying to. I think the thing that people often think, or the myth that they have, which I held after the cancer diet, after you get the cancer free, you go back to your life and you're just full of you're like, oh, my God. I've got so many great things I need to accomplish. And that wasn't what happened to us. We just kind of looked at each other a lot, saying what the hell just happened? We spent time rebuilding our marriage because our marriage took a hit for a hard hit. With that we had to kind of reestablish who we were and who we were together. And then less than two years later, the cancer came back and he died at the age of 44. Our kids were twelve, nine and seven. Yeah, I often say it very quickly and kind of want to move on, but yeah, it was really hard. It was really, really hard. It's not what you ever expect to happen. And to work through that and to help your kids work through that is something that I do not wish any parent, even parents I really don't like, I don't wish that on anybody.

[16:46] Karin: Yeah, because you're dealing with your own grief and yet then you also have a responsibility as a parent to help your kids through it.

[16:54] Kim: Yeah, but the silver lining of it, and I just want to take one quick caveat here. It is not anyone's job to come up with a silver lining for the person who's going through whatever they're going through. And I know people will say, well, at least the best part of this is that's not your job. I know you're trying to help, and I know you want to make them feel better, but it's their job to come up with their silver lining of what this experience was, and they may never come up with it. I think that's the other thing, too, for me, what I found was the silver lining was we were very well supported by several communities, and I started to really see that there were so many people who didn't show up. And after I worked through the resentment of that, I realized that most of them didn't show up because they didn't know what to say or what to do. And then I realized I was that person before my husband was diagnosed, I didn't know what to say or what to do. So that's how the book came about, was I wanted to be able to give people the tools. Just simple, really. Not even tools. It's not a book about tools. It's like you open up tip number 42 is like stock their bathroom. Make sure they've got toilet paper, toothpaste. So it's really quick tips. But those things that people did for us, they really mattered. They made a huge difference in our cancer journey, and they made a huge difference in my journey as a widow. And people often underestimate how important they are. And this book was written so that people could understand that the small little things that they do to support their friend is so important and it makes a difference. And they may never remember, but you just removed a burden for them that they didn't even realize that they had. Or maybe it's something that they did have, but what a gift. What a gift it is to be able to say, to show up to someone, I love you, and here's what I can do for you. And that makes a difference.

[18:48] Karin: And it's a beautiful book. I bought it weeks ago.

[18:51] Kim: Thank you.

[18:52] Karin: And it's so well organized, and it was not necessarily what I expected because there were some really just really great, helpful things in there. Like you talk about there was a chapter on was it being human being not doing yes.

[19:09] Kim: How to be a human being, not a human doing. Yeah.

[19:11] Karin: So tell us about that.

[19:13] Kim: Sure. So that came up with we're all uncomfortable when we're around someone who's grieving or who's sick. Like you said, you got in the elevator and you wanted to do something and you wanted to say something. And that comes from that human being part. And I think we often forget that people, the person we want to help didn't always have cancer. So how do we show up for them before they had cancer? One of my favorite things is I referenced if your person has cancer, like breast cancer or something, and their chemo is making their hair fall out, take them for a drive with a top down and see if you can make their last hairs fall out of their head. It's just about enjoying the moment together. You don't have to talk about their cancer. You don't have to talk about their death. You don't have to talk about the loss of their job or the depression. You just need to be with them. And my cousin has a 90 acre ranch, and she would tell these really hysterical stories of things that were happening on the ranch, and Art loved them. It made him feel like he was there and he remembered, and he loved them. She never talked about his cancer, never asked, how are you doing? Because she figured we'd share if we wanted to share. So the human being part is something that we often miss. And really, honestly, it's one of the key things that we can do and most powerful ways we can show up.

[20:37] Karin: It's so valuable, and it also really translates to other situations, too. We get in such this habit of trying to fix things and do things instead of just being and being with each other and feeling that connection.

[20:53] Kim: Yeah. Look, I love this country. I love this country greatly. And I love how I'm not really great about the origins here, but problems here and there. But what we are known for is that we fix things, we take charge, we figure it out, we do it, we push ahead. And that's what makes America so interesting. But it's also what makes us so hard when we have people in our lives who are suffering because we go in wanting to fix, wanting to make it better, wanting to just charge in. And if we can't cure the cancer, we've got lots of different options of what we can do. And sometimes, really, it's just the being there that is the most powerful piece, the powerful way to show up.

[21:47] Karin: Yeah. And before we hit record, we already started getting into it. And so I was sharing with Kim that the timing of this interview was so appropriate, and she immediately knew what I was talking about and said, I'm so sorry, but yeah, someone who she's kind of in between an acquaintance and a friend. I don't know her super well, but really care and respect for her, respect her. And she had a daughter, a young daughter who was just this ethereal singer, and I'm a singer, too, and so I'd connected just online. I always loved it when she posted videos of her daughter singing, who was a voice major in college and just moved to New York to try to make it. And so I was crushed when I found out that she died last week. And I just can't imagine what they're going through.

[22:44] Kim: We can't imagine what they're going through. And I think that's what makes it sometimes hard. Sometimes we can I mean, we can't imagine the depths that they feel, but we can imagine what it's like to lose someone so important to us and yeah. You want to go in? I want to go in. I would literally want to just I want you to give me their number. I want to call them up. I want to say, I'm coming right now. I'm going to organize all the help for you. I've got it. Right. Because it pulls in our hearts. It really touches us. That loss really touches us. It's hard to come to terms with how powerless we actually are to help someone, to take away someone's grief. And I think we don't have that power. What we do have is the power to show up and to tell them how much we love them every step through this journey.

[23:38] Karin: Yeah. And you gave me some really great advice about waiting.

[23:46] Kim: Yes. Yeah. Especially with loss. People come in, and they probably have a lot of people around them right now bringing them meals, taking care of them, taking care of all the stuff that needs to be taken care of in this point. And they'll probably be around for another two to three months, and then people start to trickle off and go back to their lives, and that's when it really gets difficult, is around month six. Often the focus with grief is getting through the first year. And I just finished a whole weekend with 275 widows, most of them under the age of 50. And we talked about how the second year is often just as difficult, but in a different way. So showing up in the second year, they're still going to need meals. They're going to need to know that people are thinking about them and loving them. They're going to need that kind of oh, my gosh, I forgot to tell you the story that I remember about your daughter. They're going to need support at work, they're going to need support at home. So showing up at six months, definitely send a card, but you don't have to be there in the crush of everybody else. You can show up at month nine and say, I'd like to buy you meals every single Monday night for the next two months. They will appreciate it and they will really love it, because the problem with grief is that it can be very isolating.

[25:11] Karin: Yeah. And I lost my brother a year ago, and the people who just listened and just listened to me cry and listen to me rage against the injustice of it all yes. I will always remember that.

[25:28] Kim: Yeah. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother.

[25:32] Karin: Thank you. Yeah. But you're right. I mean, it's not that. It just like after a year or a certain amount of time, the grief is just gone.

[25:44] Kim: We wish I wouldn't have a business, but it'd be really nice if we could say, hey, after a year, you're done, right? And it just morphs and it changes and maybe it decreases in its intensity, but it's still really painful. Those first three to four years were really hard. Really hard.

[26:11] Karin: And so having that experience, what you said about six months or a year, sending a card, be so impactful. I could really relate to that.

[26:22] Kim: It really can. And I think what happens is people get afraid. I remember my mother my mother's also a widow, and my dad died, actually. My mother's married twice, and she lost both husbands. And she remembers someone telling her a story about my father, and she's starting to cry. And he said, I didn't mean to make you cry, and I didn't want to share the story because I didn't want to make you cry. And I've had the same situation. We've had to explain. It's not the story that's making us cry. It's the fact that somebody remembered. Yeah, right. That's the beauty of it. Someone's giving you a piece. When people tell me stories about my husband, even 14 years later, they give me two things. They give me a piece of him which I didn't know from before, which is lovely, just so delicious. And then they also remind me that I'm not the only person who misses him. Right. And that's really powerful to know that there are people who his name pops up in their mind and they think, oh, I remember that time that he did that thing that was so funny. So share those stories. Please share those stories. The person who is grieving needs to hear those stories.

[27:32] Karin: Yeah. Keeping that memory alive. I could really relate to how important that felt to me. He's not quite gone if people still remember him and if I can still remember him. Exactly. Beautiful. But why is it important to put and you have this in the book. Why is it important to put some limits on what you can do for somebody?

[27:57] Kim: Oh, this is a great question. I rarely get asked this question because, look, you're supporting someone can turn into resenting them. There is a piece in the book where I say, check in about why you want to help. And I really mean this because sometimes we want to help because we want a ribbon. Someone to go. You win the reward for the most helpful friend ever. I love you so much. I couldn't have gone through this without you. And look, there's nothing wrong with that motive. I want to be really clear. It's a motive. That's all it is. There's nothing to be judged. But if that's your motive, then you're probably better off. I think I said in the book, Go help puppies. Because puppies, like, love you and they lick you, and they're always so excited to see you. It's really important that we don't overstep our own personal boundaries when we're helping, we want to because the person is in pain and we really want to take care of them. But when we go to take care of others in a. Way that they have not asked us to take care of in a way that we are not taking care of ourselves. We put ourselves in the backseat. That is never a good situation. And it usually leads to people feeling I've forgotten the term right now. There's a term for resentment. Yeah. There's resentful, but there's a term for it where you become like you're almost dead in compassion because you don't have any more compassion fatigue. Fatigue, yes. And that happens several different ways. But one of the ways that it can happen is when you are constantly thinking about the person wanting to help them, trying to get through it. Your brain literally can't manage all that worry all the time. And so you get compassion fatigue, which means you sort of shut off your compassion for the person. And that means that we sort of end up getting mean. Like we get kind of nuts, like, oh, then, you know, the freaking dinner again. I just get, you know, we get nasty and that does not feel good to our souls at all. Yeah, so it's not a good so setting your limits and knowing what you can, understanding what you can and can do, and they shift in the beginning, you might want to be there more often. Or maybe you say, I'm not going to be there as much now, but I'm going to double down in six months, whatever it is. But really being clear on what the limits are and making sure you're taking care of yourself is the most important thing because as I've heard said, and I say all the time, you cannot give from a well when the well is empty. And if you aren't making sure that that water is running through there and clear and clean and good and healthy and cold, then you're not doing anybody any favors at all. Yeah.

[30:34] Karin: And I think that's such an important point because it's not only taxing you as the giver, but it's also not really even helping the person you're trying to help. Right, exactly.

[30:45] Kim: Because no one likes to ask for help and that already feels kind of yucky. It's hard. And so when the person, whether we're aware of it or not, we're picking up on the fact that they're overhelping and they're hurting themselves and it doesn't feel good to the person you're trying to help either. I think that's something that we just need to really pay attention to. We're doing nobody any favors, including the person we're trying to help.

[31:09] Karin: Yeah. Such great advice. I think that's really important. What are some other things not to say?

[31:20] Kim: There are lots. If you Google it, you will find lists and lists and lists of things not to say. One of the things that often comes up is people say, how are you? And that is a loaded question. One because sometimes people really don't want to know that's just kind of like it's a reflexive question. So instead of saying that, I would say, how are you today? Or how are you right now? And then sit and listen, right? That's much more easier for someone. And honestly, when people used to say that to me and I've heard this from other widows and people with cancer, it felt almost that when people said, how are you? It felt almost intrusive, because some people were really asking so they could turn around and tell, oh, my God, I talked to Kim, and she said that she's really struggling right now, and it's just this whole thing is such a tragedy, right? So there are people who want that information so that they can be in the know, and then there are people who really do care and really will listen, but it's just too big a question to ask to answer. So when you ask specifically, how are you doing right now? Someone might burst out crying, right? Or someone might go, I don't even know. Thank you for asking. I think you know what? I'm hungry. I have to tell you, I'm really hungry right now. And then you can spring into action, and you can do something that helps. You can be like, well, let's go get some lunch together, okay? Right? So when you ask that question with those two ends, with one of those two ends, you're giving them the opportunity to actually even check in with themselves, which is a really sweet little gift. So I would say that one, the last one I will give, which is one huge pet peeve of mine, which is really hard not to do, is adding at least well, at least you didn't at least at least he didn't suffer. At least so there's all these at least where you're trying to make the loss or the situation feel better than it really is. And it comes most of the time, it comes from a place of trying to cheer someone up. It comes from a place of trying to put a solve on a wounded heart. But what it does is it diminishes the effects of what that thing that is that happened. So at least he didn't suffer. I don't think I heard it. The one I heard talk about in the book is, at least you're young and you can get remarried. I feel so much better. I don't have to worry about being a widow because I'm young and I can get remarried. Yay, right.

[34:00] Karin: That's not really what your concern was.

[34:03] Kim: Exactly. And they meant well. This person did not mean it in any negative way. But when we use that term, at least we diminish what the person is going through. At least you still have a job, at least this, and you don't want it. That's that first part, which I talked about, which is acknowledging what is happening, there is no at least when you acknowledge what has happened, it's happening to their lives. Their lives. The floors now, the floor is the wall, the windows, the ceiling, everything is confused. And so you want to make sure that whatever you say that you're not whatever you say. But sometimes when you want to connect, that you acknowledge what's happening and at least is not a good way to do that.

[34:45] Karin: Yeah. Has the effect of minimizing. Exactly. Sounds like exactly.

[34:52] Kim: So.

[34:55] Karin: What'S one big takeaway that you would want our listeners to go away from this conversation with?

[35:02] Kim: Oh, it is. Please know that you matter. I think that's the really big giant takeaway. And that person, that acquaintance, you can even help that acquaintance, you don't have to be blood sisters or brothers with a person that you want to support your situation is a great example. You matter. And that person, whatever it is you do for them, that simple little thing, the offer, even if they never take you up on it, the offer to pay for gas or send them the gift card, the massage gift card, whatever it is that you do, it's one way that they feel that they're being loved. And that love, from my own personal experience, is really powerful and helpful and needed.

[35:55] Karin: And that segues perfectly into one of my last questions that I ask everybody. And that is, what does love have to do with the work that you do?

[36:06] Kim: Everything.

[36:07] Karin: Yeah.

[36:16] Kim: I just see so many people wanting to be loved. And what I've discovered in my own life is that the more love, healthy, clean, clear love that I give to others, the patience, the kindness, however that shows up, the more love I receive. Love is at the core of this. Absolutely. At the core of this. You love someone, they're hurting, and believe it or not, they need you.

[36:44] Karin: Yeah. We clearly can't overstate how important we are for others. Right, exactly. No matter what our relationship with is with that person.

[37:01] Kim: Yeah. Absolutely.

[37:04] Karin: Well, how can people work with you or find your book? I'd also like you to say maybe a little bit about the different groups that you work with and how you help people. Yeah.

[37:15] Kim: So first of all, if anyone wants to know, I have five phrases never to say to anybody dealing with cancer. It can be applied to everything and what to say instead. So if they'd like to go download that, they can go to my website at one hundredactsoflove.com whatnot to say? Very simple. No spaces, no capitalized. And the number, it's the number 100. So 100 Xoflove.com, what not to say. The groups I work with, I work primarily with actually organizations, corporations, companies right now, any size, who are dealing with employee loss, employees diagnosed with cancer, employee death, and know that there's much more that they can do, but just don't know what it is and how to support everyone who's being affected by that situation. I also do work with individuals. So, for instance, Karen if you came in and you had a group of friends, it's like, okay, we need to surround this person with a lot of help. I offer an hour long session where we get really into I ask you a lot of details. We get really into understanding who this person is, and then we just do a massive brainstorming. So you all walk away with some really concrete ideas of how you can show up for that person. And they can also reach me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn at Kim T. Hamer on LinkedIn. I do LinkedIn lives every Thursday, and then they can also reach me on Instagram at 100 Xoflove.com. I mean, sorry, not but 100 Xoflove. Please feel free to DM me in either one of those places. I'm always happy to answer questions. I know that this is a big topic and sometimes people are feeling very hesitant to ask questions. They don't even know where to start. So feel free to DM me and we can set up a time to talk so I can help you out.

[39:02] Karin: Great. And I will just add a plug for your book. Like I said, I bought it, and I think it's just one of those things that everyone should have on their bookshelf because you don't know when it's going to happen, and then you just have it right there. And it was really perfect for me.

[39:19] Kim: To have this week. Thank you so much. I'm so glad you feel that way. And that's exactly what I wanted it I just wanted to be this sort of look, we all need ideas, and I hope that people everyone grabs copies in triplicate, of course, and sends them out to friends, because unfortunately, this is we are going to run to people who need help. And it's just always nice to know you've got this resource guide there that was exactly the reason that I wrote it. So thank you so much. Karen, I so appreciate you.

[39:47] Karin: Yeah, and I appreciate all the work you're doing. Keep at it. It's really important. So thank you so much and thanks for joining me.

[39:55] Kim: Thank you.

[39:56] Karin: Thanks for joining us. Today on Love Is Us. If you liked the show and think others would enjoy it, I'd really appreciate it if you left me a review. You can also sign up for my weekly newsletter where you'll get tips about relationships and personal growth by going to my website, drcalde.com. That's d-r-c-a-l-d-e.com. I make it easy to sign up and easy to cancel at any time. Special thanks to Tim Gorman for my music, Aly Shaw for my artwork, and Ross Burdick for tech and editing assistants. Again, I'm so glad you joined us today, because the best way to bring more love into your life and into the world is to be love. The best way to be love is to love yourself and those around you. Let's learn and be inspired together.