Avi opens the episode with a sermon on “the compromised substrate”: when public idols crack, the scavengers try to smear the entire network with the sins of a few. Bitcoin is not its loudest humans, and the protocol shouldn’t inherit anyone’s moral debt by association.

Then Ben Justman returns, bringing it back to earth with the reality of shipping bottles, licensing, and the awkward border where Bitcoin-native trade meets heavily regulated goods such as wine. They riff on the dream of resilient “Denim Road” style trade routes and courier networks, but Ben explains why alcohol law keeps him partially pinned to the fiat rails, even if his customers and values are fully Bitcoin.

From there, they dig into the state of Nostr commerce: marketplaces like Plebeian Market/Shopstr and the practical frictions of e-cash, discovery, and demand. Ben shares a very relatable “I’m early and I paid tuition” moment: he sold wine once, fumbled an e-cash withdrawal, balked at fees, and later realized the funds were gone.

The conversation closes around an artisan’s paradox in a bear market: quality requires pricing with integrity, but buyers feel poorer, even as they might “need the wine the most.” Then the deeper pricing insight: sometimes raising prices and removing shipping friction signals quality more honestly than trying to compete with supermarket expectations.

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