In this episode, Jason Hsieh sits down with Jeff Johnston, a veteran game designer from Boston who has been creating family card and board games since 2006. Jeff shares the story behind Campfire Smokeout, his first self-published game, and how it found its way into campgrounds across America through distributor Wilcor. He talks honestly about what surprised him most in the self-publishing process, the decisions he had to make around pricing and tariffs, and what he learned about the real difference between licensing and publishing your own game. Whether you design games as a side venture or are considering your first self-published product, Jeff's experience offers clear, practical lessons from someone who has been on both sides of the table.