In Part 2, the conversation between Ryan A Bush and Mufakhrul Shah deepens as they examine how morality is developed and enforced. Ryan expands on his wisdom-based ethics, questioning whether rules help or hinder moral growth, while Mufakhrul defends principles as necessary guardrails for a functioning society. They explore whether striving for virtue can replace duty, how to deal with those who reject shared values, and what kind of moral framework leads to a better world. Host Frank Lawton helps navigate this high-level exchange with clarity and curiosity.

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