Easily the most extravagantly long and interesting conversation I've had in a long time. When I say this, it is because I could never imagine that almost 10 hours of conversation could actually be done, without even trying to reach that time, but also that there could be a podcast inside of all that. I hope you all enjoy this pleasant conversation with a longtime friend! If you do manage to reach the end, that is truly fascinating. If not, don't worry about it